tent or shelter pattern?

For hot weather camping, I use just a sleeping bag liner. I made one out of Polartec microfleece - it's like a flannel. No need for a nylon shell since the tent provides any wind protection I need.

I'd avoid polypro, since it gets stinky fast. If you want to use a quick-dry fabric, go with a polyester of some sort. Polartec Powerdry is an option - I use it for long underwear and love it.

For camping with SO, we use two thermarests joined with a couple kit. I made a fitted sheet with some very light (almost sheer) brushed polyester fabric. The microfleece liner unzips into a top sheet (it's rectangular, not a mummy shape).

I just looked at the Malden Mills web site and can't find the microfleece. Maybe they don't make it anymore.

Ditto the comments on the ultralight backpacker web site. Look at the silicone impregnated nylon (siltarp stuff) for really light gear.

Mike

Mike wrote>

Do you think I need a tent for the Grand Canyon? I was thinking if I had a nylong shell on my polartec sleeping shell then I might get away without the tent.

Thanks for the tip on the plypro. I guess I am off to investigate all the different options. Joy

On 2005-04-20 snipped-for-privacy@sbcglobal.net said: >Newsgroups: alt.sewing >o.k. ....I just got reservations for my family to do a 7 day >backcountry GrandCanyon backpacking trip this summer! Yippee! We >want to go ultralight since most of our packweight will be water and >temperatures espect to be over 100 degrees in the shade. I think my >question is for Penny but maybe others will have help too. >I don't think we need typical sleeping bags... >Then, since the chance of rain is very minimal I hate to waste alot >of weight on a traditional tent but would hate to just have a >groundcloth or poncho if we do get stuck with a couple days of >dounpour. Joy, Keep in mind that it is very dry out here, and without the greenhouse shield of water vapor we get 30 to 40 deg daily temperature swings. If you are familiar with Colin Campbell's books (_Complete Backpacker_, _Man who Walked Through Time_), he talks of that. _Man .._ was of a Grand Canyon trip. I find a light polarfleece blanket in addition to a summer bag gives the flexibility I want. And a light cover sheet to keep wind from sucking heat off of you. Bivvy sack? Vapor barrier (large plastic bag) for unexpected chill. Flexibility...

For a simple, lightweight shelter _ I have used a large sheet of builder's plastic stretched in a "|_ ", giving ground cloth, wall, and roof. I weighted the floor with rocks, supported wall over a rope between trees, and roped roof corners out to more trees, which will be real scarce in G.C. (That was in MD.)

I ought to go there myself - it's only a few hundred miles. Last saw G.C. in mid-1940's, need to refresh memory.

EnJoy!!!

Tom Willmon Mountainair, (mid) New Mexico, USA

A day for firm decisions!!!!! Or is it?

Net-Tamer V 1.12.0 - Registered

Um, don't you mean Colin Fletcher?

Melinda, who is currently in the middle of reading his book on rafting down the Grand Canyon, a book done much later in his life, but has read

On 2005-04-20 d46b44$dkv$ snipped-for-privacy@reader2.nmix.net said: >Newsgroups: alt.sewing > snipped-for-privacy@cybermesa.net wrote: >> shield of water vapor we get 30 to 40 deg daily temperature >>swings. If you are familiar with Colin Campbell's books (_Complete >> Backpacker_, _Man who Walked Through Time_), he talks of that. >>_Man .._ was of a Grand Canyon trip. I find a light polarfleece >blanket >Um, don't you mean Colin Fletcher? Yeah, something about Campbell didn't feel right. Got it was Fletcher about 15 minutes later - posted again.

Actually, I was amazed and delighted when more than a blank came up. Too bad it was the wrong one.

Tom Willmon Mountainair, (mid) New Mexico, USA

I know all the answers, it's the questions I have problems with

Net-Tamer V 1.12.0 - Registered

Last summer, at the end of July, we went to the north rim of the Canyon. Temperature there was only in the 70's. I know the south rim is hotter. With your temperature estimate of 100 degrees, I suspect you're headed for the south rim. Good luck and have a wonderful time!

Suzanne

Joy Hardie wrote:

We got snowed out camping at the South Rim at the end of March one year.

I've only been to Grand Canyon for one day in winter and not for camping overnight, so I can't comment with any experience or knowledge.

My first thought is that the temperatures can swing a lot there, but that seems to be a problem at the rim rather than down in the Canyon itself. You'd better check on the range of temps to expect - it it gets down to 10C/50F at night, you might find it cool.

Someone else suggested a lean-to made out of a fly/plastic sheet/etc. If the winds don't shift a lot, that would work. Personally, I always end up camping in places where there are bugs, so a tent is mandatory.

If you are going to put nylon close to your body (sleeping bag shell or bivy) you'd best use a highly breathable fabric - keep the waterproof stuff further away. Waterproof-breathables are expensive, so I'd opt for breathable close and waterproof further away. Otherwise, you'll be sleeping in a sweatlodge. Vapour barriers are only appropriate for extremely cold (winter) conditions.

You can spend a lot of time doing that. DAMHIKT.

Mike

Suzanne wrote>

Hi Suzanne, I guess you can never rely on the wheather...but we hiked to the bottom from the south rim 3 years ago in Sept. and temp. in the shade were 105! I had planned it as a family reunion with my brothers family from Va and we had 5 kids and my mother too! That is hotter than normal for Sept. It isn't unusual to get well above 100 in the canyon during the summer months...so if it is 70 on the rim it can easily be 110 at the bottom. Even in the spring with snow at the upper levels it can be in the 80's at Phantom Ranch. We are going the first week of July. We had to sign a special permit application that we understood the risks involved in undertaking the hike in that it could easily result in serious injury or death!!! That was scary...but we will be well prepared. Yes, mild mannered seamstress by day.....survivalist / ourdoorswoman by training and at heart. So I will be in my element. And, after a long cold winter in Michigan...it can NEVER be warm enough for me. I just got back from Mexico and it wasn't quite warm enough! Joy

good points, and in case it might help, I have to say, just about anywhere in the SW and Most of the west, there is not to much chance of rain overnight during the summer. Most of the rain is in the spring, and generally involves between an hour and four hours in the afternoon, rather than all day or overnight. I'm not saying there is NO chance of overnight rain, but if I remember right, it is rare.

Kitty

It's on the 100weight page. The microvelour. Occasionally they'll have some microchamois which is even finer than the microvelour.

-- Jenn Ridley : snipped-for-privacy@chartermi.net

I was looking at the main web site, not the store, and didn't notice the reference to chamois. Thanks for pointing it out.

It's the chamois that I used for a liner - when new, it feels like cashmere! Unfortunately, after a few washings, it feels like flannel, which is not quite as decadent.

Mike

On 2005-04-22 snipped-for-privacy@magma.ca said: >Newsgroups: alt.sewing >good points, and in case it might help, I have to say, just about >anywhere in the SW and Most of the west, there is not to much >chance of rain overnight during the summer. Most of the rain is >in the spring, and generally involves between an hour and four >hours in the afternoon, rather than all day or overnight. I'm not >saying there is NO chance of overnight rain, but if I remember >right, it is rare. >Kitty Don't count on that. My major rain is in later summer. Locals call it the Monsoon Season. Checking last 3 years precip. records here, there is a definite spike in August. 2002 had almost no rain (or snow) until July. However monthly totals tend to be under 2 inches, and individual rains are short duration.

Grand Canyon may be slightly different; it is about 450 miles west of me, but gets most of the same weather systems I do, coming across from California. See if Park Service keeps a graph of typical rainfall on a www. site.

All my domestic water supply comes from roof-harvested rainwater. Some years I'm low and nervous in mid-summer, awaiting the monsoon. Been down to my last few-hundred gallons, but the rains have always come in before I'd have to haul water from town (tastes ughly - ground water here has a lot of dissolved salts).

But yeah, with 10 to 14 inches annual totals, your chances of getting wet for long are pretty slim, particularly compared to in the east. (I was a 50-year resident of Maryland.)

Best of luck and good times to you.

Tom Willmon Mountainair, (mid) New Mexico, USA

Don't question authority. It doesn't know either.

Net-Tamer V 1.12.0 - Registered

Technical info is on the Malden Mills web site - hard to find, since it's under the full roll purchase information, but it's all there.

If you click on the "100 Series" name in the table named "Polartec Family" it will take you to the info on all the different 100 series variants, including the weights.

Nothing. Since it is intended as a liner, I just bought a sleeping bag zipper, folded the fabric lengthwise and sewed on the zipper. I use rectangular sleeping bags, so no tapering reguired.

In cold weather, I use it inside the sleeping bag (adding several degrees to its temperature range). In warm weather, I use it on its own.

Mike