Where does a man begin to learn how to make his own clothes?

My thought was that the original poster must still be living at home and not be a grown man (adult) if he's worried about his father finding out he sews. Otherwise, the problem of dad finding out would not exist, because dad would not be there to know.

No Fair, Kate. You were indeed lucky, having a family who supported and encouraged you in every way, but not everyone has that. I had a number of relatives like the poster's father. They had their opinions, and they "knew" they were right and everyone else was wrong. Rather than cause yet another rant and rage, their families simply concealed all the activites of which they knew the elders would disapprove. It was, quite simply, the only way to co-exist.

Olwyn Mary in New Orleans.

I tend to just avoid his opinions.

That about sums it up.

I think I've always been bolshi and opinionated! I'd simply have got on with what I wanted to do despite the rukkus had parents or grandparents tried that trick on me. In fact, I put the phone down on my grandmother when she was mid rant about something she didn't think I should be doing, more than once.

My dad did once ask what I'd do if he disapproved of a course of action I wanted to take. Do it anyway, unless you had demonstrable reasons for being right, rather than mere opinions, was my answer. Fine, he said, and grinned. I did point out that I'd acknowledge my error if he was proved right after all. And I never expected or even asked them to pay for my mistakes. In fact, he did NOT approve when I moved in with my then boyfriend, but told me I must lead my life my way, as he had taught me, and if it all went horribly wrong, he and my mother would be there to help pick up the pieces. As things turned out, I've been married to that same bloke for over 23 years, and Dad always treated him like another son anyway.

My mother and I have a good understanding of the way things should work: in my house we live by *my* house rules, and in her house by hers.

With the students I tended to point out to the parents that I was here to support and encourage growth, expansion and exploration, especially if they could not bring themselves to do this. I think I was harder on some parents than on their kids. I'd support girls who wanted to be engineers or plumbers as much as boys who wanted to be chefs or to sew. I'd point the parents of boys at Escoffier, Worth, and a whole slew of tailors, and the parents of girls at women like Marie Curie and Rosalind Franklin. I was mean to them: I wouldn't let them sit comfortably in their fossilized traditional ways. I did my best to shake them out of those ways and think about what their kids wanted out of life rather than what they wanted their kids to do for them.

So for blokes who want to sew? Go do it! Forget those people who say it's woossy or gurlie or effeminate! What do they know about it? Not enough, obviously. Saddlers sew: most of them are blokes. Sailmakers sew: traditionally, most of them have been blokes! Significant proportions of the kite making fraternity are blokes who sew their own. Some of the best tailors in the world are blokes. I know plenty of historic garb makers who are blokes who sew. And then there's a fella who posts here that wanted to make a coat and started by buying sheep and building a loom... Brilliant move, that was! :)

So, dear casioculture, if you want to sew, by hand or machine, go ahead. Ignore what dad might or might not say, and if he goes off on a rant, just close your ears until he runs down, and then talk about something else. I'll support every stitch you make, needle and thread or machine made. In fact, why not make for him something that he'd really appreciate if it had been made by his daughter, wife, or daughter in law... And *then* shake him with the knowledge that you made it for him! :)

A needle can do anything a machine can do, and a great many things a machine can't do -- but the machine does it so much

On long seams, that is. The older I get, the more things I do by hand because it's too much trouble to sit down at the machine -- or because I've gotten so fussy that I want the black stitches to be taken only through the black spots on the fabric.

You could placate your inner father by hunting down a really-old machine with its black-painted machine-shop appearance -- that will appeal to your pocket snake too -- if it isn't in demand among collectors, it will be really cheap. And those old machines were *built*; they are as reliable as cold chisels. In the twenties and thirties, "it runs like a sewing machine" was the highest possible praise for a piece of machinery.

For a little extra manliness, you could buy a sailor's palm and hang it on the machine when neither is in use.

If you think your real father is about to drop in, you could scatter the innards over your workbench and be cleaning them with kerosene when he arrives.

As for space -- I'm using one of my cabinet-model sewing machines as a sideboard, and the other one is an end table. The unused portable, on the other hand, is taking up space in a closet -- and the in-service portable has a whole room

-- well, it shares with my computer, four kinds of pinfeed paper and five kinds of envelopes, the ironing board, and a big chunk of the library.

An old army footlocker is a good place to keep notions. (I've gotten to the wall-of-bookshelves stage, but the footlocker is still full.)

Joy Beeson

In fact, I put the phone down on my grandmother

You HUNG UP on your GRANDMOTHER!! MORE than ONCE!!!! Had you done anything so disrespectful in my family, you would no longer BE part of the family. You would have been cast off, written out of the wills, no longer invited to family occasions such as weddings and baptisms, and most certainly NOT welcome at funerals. If any of your own generaton had tried to keep in touch with you, we would have had to do it extremely discreetly, so that the news would not filter back to the patriarchs and matriarchs of the clan.

Olwyn Mary in New Orleans.

Just curious, do you believe that seniority automatically gives one the right to be cantankerous, crotchety, obnoxious, etc., and that the younger generations must accept any kind of verbal abuse from the older generation? *shudder*

Sorry, but my whole family CBA with that kind of nonsense. Granny got a ticking off from Ma (her daughter) both times for interfering in my life! :D And I have warned Ma herself off the occasional bit of well-meant interfearsomeness. More politely than putting the phone down on her, but then she had earned more respect from me.

If I poke my nose in where it is neither needed nor wanted, I expect my sisters and bro to tell me, and then carry on as we have for the last 50 years. I'm not known for my tact (far from it, unfortunately!), but they do at least know they'll get an honest opinion! AND that it's impossible for us to offend each other to the point of rift and ostrication. It would need murder of a sibling/parent/offspring for THAT to happen!

As my mum has been clan matriarch since Granny let her final few marbles slip off into the fairy realm, I don't think there's a lot of danger of me being cast out.

-- Kate XXXXXX R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons

Not in my family! Respect must be earned, both ways. By the later days of her life, Granny and I had a good understanding and a good degree of mutual respect as adults. As a child, I loved her dearly, and my mother always said she made a better granny than she did a mum! They disagreed to the point that mum moved from Kirkcaldy (north side of the Firth of Forth from Edinburgh) to London, at the age of 18 and with her father's blessing. On the other hand, when mum went back to Scotland, she was welcomed back home by her mother as if there had been no argument about her going.

I may be mistaken (as is often the case!), but I really thought Olwyn Mary was being facetious. The part about 'most especially not welcome at funerals' really made me chuckle.

Sometimes it's really hard to be sure of intent...

Doreen in Alabama

I agree. My grandfather was terribly & obsessively _mean_. Bigoted and LOUD. When he swore - loudly - at my grandmother (a sweet, lovable woman) for not waiting him as quickly as he wanted her to, that was it. I stood up to him, he was not happy with me and let me know it. I never, ever, cared for that man. He didn't deserve my respect. And, most of my cousins felt the same way.

-Irene=20

-------------- You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough.=20

--Mae West=20

--------------

There are some people in this world who are so miserable with themselves and everyone else.

I don't think that age should be the only reason to give respect.

No matter your age you have to earn it.

I do think that Olwyn MAry was speaking with tongue in cheek.

My oldest granddaughters do not like either of their paternal grandparents. They are difficult demanding people. My DH knew them before they were married and said they are no different now than they were 50 years ago. I think it's sad that they never figured out that they are not pleasant to be around.They are the losers. Juno

My, my we HAVE gone a long way from the original question, which was how we could help casioculture to learn to sew, while simultaneously maintaining the utmost discretion in front of his extremely prejudiced parent.

Actually, I was trying to put in a plea for respect and good manners, and pointing out that there are politer ways of ending a conversation with a nosey grandmother than slamming the phone down. However, as Kate's family seems to revel in yelling and snapping and snarling at each other, they are welcome to do so as long as they do not include me. Personally, I prefer to live on a much gentler level, and my way of dealing with obnoxious relatives and others is simply to stay away from them as much as possible. Of course (wink, wink) this was made much easier by the fact that I got married one Saturday and crossed the Atlantic the next, thus enabling me to avoid all the nasty ones on my rare visits back.

Olwyn Mary in New Orleans.

Well, I certainly hope so, but unfortunately what Olwyn described is exactly what would (and did in my case) take place with my in-laws' family.

I had to hang up on my MIL twice, but in both cases she deserved it and it was the only way I could finally get away from her verbal abuse.

How uncomfortable that must have been.

I *wish* Olwyn Mary's post had been intended as humor.

Doreen in Alabama

Ah, now there you have it wrong: Both times I simply told her, quietly, that she was out of order and I wasn't going to talk to her again until she calmed down (she wasn't yelling: middle class Scots grannies have no need to raise their voices!). She chose to take offense at something I did and chose witter onandonandon at me about it, so I gently put the phone down on her, and picked it up to my mum to warn her of squalls to come. Mum basically told her she wasn't at all surprised I put the phone down, and she'd know better next time than to nag about something beyond her remit as a granny, since I was an independent and legally adult person by then.

However, as

Oh, we rarely ever yell at each other. No need: we are far too great friends, and much more likely to laugh at each other and our own daftness than to yell or interfere. 99% of the time interfering is unnecessary: and my two sisters are two of the very first people I turn to in time of need. They are more likely to give practical help, a pithy comment on my folly, and help me laugh at myself than nag on and on... MUCH healthier and a great deal more fun than creeping round afraid of offending folk.

Nice thing is with the way we are is that I don't HAVE any obnoxious relatives! Most are highly entertaining, great fun to be with (especially great aunts who dance at your wedding until 3 am!), and there to help if I need them - as I am for them, I hope.

I seem to have married into a family with step-mothers/sisters who behave in exactly the same way! After being widowed, my FIL married a fantastic lady with two brilliant daughters: The day DH acquired a pair of step-sisters and a stepmother was one of the best.

Our family is very lively when we all get together, but arguments are more likely to be of the intellectual discussion type about whether or not this or that version of some obscure point of literature or history is the correct one than whether X offended Y unforgivably, and over what... Go back far enough and we were border rievers, Huganot refugees, Viking raiders, or (in DH's case) 18th C highwaymen! Sadly we have degenerated recently and are all middle class and respectable... Last time I tried to have a stand-up row with my mum I was 14. I don't remember what it was about (probably blue nail varnish or something!), but I do remember we both ended up in helpless giggles.

And for money (that giant amongst irritators of families) - no problem! If there is anything to inherit, all grandkids and children will be treated equally, whether 'real' or step. We would far rather out AP's spent it all before they went, having fun!

On Sat, 04 Mar 2006 23:48:46 +0000 in alt.sewing, Kate Dicey wrote,

Damn right, by the way. Call it textile engineering if you prefer.