Beginner Questions

Not with the recent price adjustments for the decline in the dollar. JET mini is a good start.

No you wouldn't. There are such a variety of tools and grinds out there that you wouldn't be duplicating a thing. Once you determine that you like one pattern and grind, you purchase top of line, and modify the old tool to do another job. Get a set and learn to use them.

Stones will do it, but grinders are better. If you go stones, don't bother with those ungodly expensive and much too soft water stones. Get a medium gouge stone and a coarse/medium carborundum. If you go grinder, go slow to make it more useful in a shop full of carbon steel.

Free/fire wood is best, green free wood easiest to practice on. Your "poplar" is probably the misnamed magnolia of the east, rather than a true poplar, but it's reasonable practice wood when you start to turn dry.

Sanding can produce some dust, that's for sure. You'll want to fit collection at the source, and maybe a nuisance mask for those at a distance. Stay away from woods you can smell, because they'll be the worst.

Not that I've seen. There are a lot of "project-type" books out there with general turning information. Frank Pain - The Practical Woodturner is the only book I own. Library or used-book place is nice, but better to look for a Mentor at

under Local Chapters. >

More of the "my purchase is better than your purchase" blather out there than you care to see. Limit yourself to searching for something more precise, like "JET Mini reviews." Same with sites. Some are simpler than others, some so esoteric they have "artist statements" on them. Look for sites containing information on what _you_ want, like pens.

Clubs are a great place to learn.

I am back turning after a 20 year hiatus and am a member of the New Jersey Woodturners. We have demonstrations, an extensive library and even lend fully equipped lathes for one month at a time. Last month, some of the more experienced turners gave private lessons for a small fee. The group is incredibly supportive of new turners.

Join a club!!!

Ed,

As a fellow newbie one of my favorites: Taunton's Complete Illustrated Guide to Turning by Richard Raffan.

Go to a Barnes and Noble, get a cup of coffee, and ask where the woodturning books are because the section was tee tiny and in a corner. I'm on Social Security but I couldn't resist buying 500 Wood Bowls, also. God, those works are beautiful. I'm still trying to figure out the artist's (Grant Vaughn) technique used on the cover page bowl. Such creativity of design and form just makes me shake my head in wonder. Even his choice of Australian Rosewood with its particularly tight grain highlighted the design and flow.

My thought is that my work will be pleasing even if I don't have their kind of talent - wood alone is beautiful when finished, no differently than marble or diamonds.

BTW, while I enjoy visiting B&N their prices, even after joining their club, are a heckuva lot higher than Amazon's.

TomNie

Hello Ed,

I started turning in Otober 2003. Prior to purchasing any tools I spent perhaps 4 or 5 months lurking on this group as well as visiting websites dedicated to turning. While I was a tool and die builder in a previous incarnation I knew nothing about turning wood. I went to the local library and looked at as many of the woodturning books they had.

As to your questions. Lathe. I doubt you can find a good new lathe for under $300.00. I bought a Jet 1236 and it has seved me well as a starter. I may upgrade in a few years but for now I am satisfied. The size of the lathe to purchase should probably be dictated by several factors. How much room do you have? What type of turning do you want to do (bowls and such, spindle turning, both? If you want to turn pens, there is a Jet midi that gets good comments. Tools. Someone on this group once said something to the effect of "Buy once cry once" That is get good tools right from the start. However I have also read that some fairly inexpensive tools but servicable tools can be had. They can get you started as well as give you something cheaper to practice sharpening on. Sharpening. There is some difference of opinion on sharpening as there is on many facets of wood turning. That is one of the things that makes it entertaining - if you are trying something that doesn't work for you, there is always another opinion on how it should be done. If it works for you, great. I bought a 2 wheel grinder with one white and one grey and it works just fine. I have a Sorby fingernail bowl gounge and have yet to develop the skill needed to hand sharpen. I purchased a Packard jig to help me sharpen. Wood. I learned on hard maple and 2X4s. The maple was a beautiful wood that I wish I had more of. Pretty much any kind of wood will work. Starting out you want to develop a skill set and as there will be quite a number of mistakes made it is more economical to make them on free wood. Safety. I use a face shield. I also have a dust collector and a home-made air cleaner. The latter is turned on when I start sanding and let running for about an hour after I've finished. You can spend several hundred dollars for a top of the line dust mask that will likely be good in the long run (20 years of turning without protectiuon is not a good thing). I bought a resporator from Woodcraft see:

Again, depending on the type of turning there are other tools you may see a need for. You mentioned pen turning so a drill press may well be in your future. Others more experienced may well chime in. Good luck

"Ed Peddycoart" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@celticblues.com...

The AAW has chapters all over; you can usually find someone locally to help you along.

Size the lathe for the largest project you can imagine yourself doing. In my case, it's table legs - so a minimum 36" span.

My opinion is to buy the $32 "set of 8" you see in some discount catalogs. Use them to learn how to sharpen, tune, and otherwise abuse your tools. By the time you're ready to invest $50 in a single tool, you'll know which one you need.

In general, though, it depends on the project. For medium spindle work, you'll need a shallow gouge in the 1/4 to 3/8 range, a large deep gouge or roughing gouge, and a medium skew. I have two parting tools and only use them as small skews, I use the big skew to actually part.

For bowl work you'll need a deep gouge (different grind) and probably some scrapers.

I got by with a cheap 6" grinder and a shop-made jig, but I did eventually buy a Tormek. Of course, I hava the full range of woodworking stuff to sharpen, so I justified it for planer and jointer blades.

Poplar is wonderful. Mahogany is good too; both have tight grain but cut easily. Firewood and tree branches too.

Yeah. Don't sand ;-)

Beginner books by Ken Rowley or Richard Raffan are my recommendations.

Here ;-)

Google archives of this group are immensely helpful too.

best lathe to start on is someone else's.. free and built in teacher...

next best IMO are the web sites of some of the folks here.. a turner's webucation:

mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

I use a 1' by 30" belt sander like the one Harbor Freight sells for $30. Put a 100 grit belt on it, tilt the table to your favorite angle (I usually use 35 degrees) and sharpen away. Don't use it for wood because the sparks made by sharpening can set sawdust smouldering. I also have white and grey grinders, stones, diamond hones etc, but like the belt sander best for turning tools.

Keep an eye out for sales. Woodcraft has a 10% off everything Thursday (tomorrow). They have their own brand of slow-speed grinder that you can get for $75 on sale. Normally $100.

I think it's good advice to buy a set of tools to practice sharpening. Harbor Feight has some High Speed Steel tools that are cheap.

Don't buy all at once, unless there is a reason to do so. Once you start, you will find yourself wishing to master some sort of object. If you do pens, then you may need several more tools you didn't know you needed. Likewise bowls.

The Jet JWL 1236 lathe is $499 now on Amazon. And you can save shipping, sales tax, and sometimes get $50 off a tool purchase. I am happy with mine. I do wish I had a slower speed than 600 rpm.

There's a harbor freight clone of the jet for $279.

Books are a good value, and joining a club, as one wrecker says.

If you are innterested in a scroll chuck, check out kmstools.com

Chaz... I'm in central Calif. and don't even know what maple LOOKS like, except for my parents old kitchen table..

We're deprived out here...I've never seen cherry except the fruit bearing kind.. never even heard of things like purple heart, osage orange, box elder, blood wood, etc., etc., until I heard about them here and saw pictures..

mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Kevin,

Where do you live that you can't get more maple? Or was it that particular lot of maple that you pine (haha) for?

Do a newsgroup search for "mini" and "midi" - specifically looking at the Jet and Delta brands. These are fine, solid and well-respected cast iron lathes that serve their owners very, very well. I've had one as my sole lathe for 4 years now and am just now at the point of moving up. Many long-time turners who have expensive machines buy one of these mini/midi's as a second or traveling lathe. Their only drawback is 10" diameter max turning but you can learn a lot and do a lot within this size - plus you can turn up to something like 37" long with the bed extension.

For online sources look at: Packard Woodworks, Craft Supplies (Utah, not England), Woodcraft and Rockler. Sears used to carry the Delta Midi but I don't know if they still do.

Keep in mind that no matter how much you spend, with use, you'll have to replace every tool you ever buy. Doesn't matter how much it costs, tools are consumables. The Harbor Freight high-speed steel set has gotten pretty favorable feedback here as a good starter. The thing about such sets is to use them, practice sharpening them, use them, reshape them, use them, alter the shape again, use them, etc. It's this exploration process which will tell you what kind of tool you might favor when it comes time to replacing the inexpensive tool with a higher quality one.

Chuck, Norway Maple gorws like a weed around here (south central Indiana). The hard maple was the stump that came from a tree that was wacked down in August 2003-- 2 months before I got my lathe. Anyways I do have a very large chunk of Norway (soft?) maple outside for about a year now. I heard a chainsaw running one day and like a kid running to the neighborhood ice cream truck, I went. Neighbor was glad to get rid of it and two other pieces. He even delivered it! The one I have left is about 20 some inches in diameter and 4 foot high. I'll be ripping it in a few weeks. I think that there will be some pretty good spalting.

Ed:

Have a look at my web site.

In Canada you can get the following lathes at close to $300

I have the mini lathe -- very similar to Jet and General and cheaper. $300 CDN gets you a lathe, face plate live tail centre and tools. I added the extension.... Despite warnings that things may not be mechanically "true" it has proved to be fine.

Also try busy Bee tools in Canada...

MASK is _essential_. DAMHIKT I recommend an N95 dust mask as well. Get the type of masks with an exhaust port... They are cooler and don't fog glasses and masks.

I am using the Carbon Steel tools that came with my lathe -- nice edge

-- doesn't hold well. A good HSS set is at least $200 -- local Canadian Tire has a set -- nice but next year. :-)

For sharpening -- I have a grinder next to the lathe. $60 CDN I do not bother with honing. Not worth the time -- at least with carbon steel tool s.

Check my links page for a few turning links. Visit the Darrel Feltmate web site-- listen to george's advice (even when he's cranky :-) ).

Learn about LDD if you turn bowls from green wood.

Visit Lee Valley and admire the "real" turning tools. :-)

Turn some basswood and pine spindles. When they fly off the lathe and belt you they don't hurt as much as the heavier woods.

Turning Books

Darlow book -- technical and useful 26&ap=1 Irons Book Woodturning: Two Books in One Author: Phil Irons Very useful books for newbies.

Respect the skew but fear it not!

Do you have a type of turning in mind that you'd like to start out with

- things like tops, candlesticks, and boxes - or bowls, plates, and vases?

There are many different opinions on what constitutes the necessary tools for one just starting out. I'd recommend:

3/4" roughing gouge; 3/8" spindle gouge; 1/8" parting tool; 1" round-nose scraper; 3/8" bowl gouge.

Hold off on the skew until you have a little experience in front of the lathe. With the above you should be able to do just about any type of turning except deep hollowing.

As a relative newbie myself, here's what I've got, and it serves me well. I got the Delta Midi lathe last winter, and opted for the free set of eight turning tools that they were offering as a promotion- FWIW, I feel no need to *upgrade* the Delta tools until I've used them up, and that is going to be a good long time. Make sure you read the manual that comes with whatever you get before you complain about the tool! The Delta was not ready to go out of the box- it did need a small amount of monkeying around to get the banjo and tail stock to clamp down properly (the fix was only turning a bolt on the bottom of each of them a half turn or so, but it you don't read the manual, you won't know!)

The Midi (and the Jet Mini is about the same size) is able to turn a blank about 8" in diameter and 17" long in a perfect world, but realistically, you can get about a 7" diameter finished bowl done on it, unless you have a really nice round blank. I've never maxed out the spindle length, but I don't do much spindle turning, so I imagine that is the reason. If you want to turn bowls or hollow forms, that short bed is sort of a bonus, since you can stand right at the end of the lathe and work on the inside quite easily. Of course, after less than a year, I'm already wanting something with a larger swing, so keep that in mind as well.

While I was waiting for those to arrive, I picked up a $15 set of tools from Menards so I could play with my new toy- I found that the Delta set is pretty good (I believe it retails for about $100) but the edges do not get as sharp as the cheap carbon steel ones, they just last longer with each sharpening. So, I actually rough out with the Delta tools, which are much stiffer and higher quality, and then do a real light final shaving with the cheap carbon steel set. The Delta set came with two skews, a roughing gouge, a bowl gouge, a 1/4" spindle gouge, a round-nose chisel, a square-nose chisel and a parting tool. What I've found to be indispensible is the large skew, the three gouges (esp. the 1/4" spindle gouge- I use it for hollowing) and the parting tool. The round and square nose chisels and the narrow skew I could live without (though I do use them from time to time, mainly just because I have them) The lathe (a display model) and the free tools came to about $285 US.

For sharpening, I just use a standard Delta 6" slimline bench grinder mounted on a bar stool next to the lathe. If you go this route, it's a lot less expensive, but you need to watch out for burning. The sucker will spin for some time after you shut the switch off, so it's actually sort of possible to use it *like* a slow-speed grinder, if you let it speed up and then shut it off and sharpen while the motor is winding down. Otherwise, a light touch does the trick just as well. The only tools I hone on my oil stones are the skews- with the gouges and parting tool, the burr left by the grinder is actually kind of a bonus- it's really sharp, and generally gives a pretty nice cut.

You're also probably going to find that you want a chuck. There are a whole lot of really nice ones, but if you're on a budget, Grizzly Industrial sells one for about $40 that works pretty good- it's got enough holding power for anything that will fit on a Midi/Mini lathe in my experience, unless you jab the piece with a chisel and get a really big catch. Otherwise, the Delta comes with a 6" faceplate that will work for turning things like bowls as well, but I like the chuck better- YMMV.

The other accessory that is almost a must have is a drill chuck for the tail stock- if you don't want one of those, you can buy drill bits with a MT on the end, but they're not cheap. This setup works really well for hollowing bowls and other things- the center is the hardest bit to turn away. If you don't have a chuck, you can use a gouge to do it, it's just a little slower.

Find some fire wood, and go to work. Try to avoid Oak at first- it cracks really badly, and cutting the endgrain is terrible. Birch, Maple and Mesquite are my favorites. Those three machine like plastic or metal, IME. Woods like Cherry and some of the exotics look great when they're done, but they can be really squirrely and have a lot of tearout. Don't be afraid to toss an ugly hunk of stumpwood or a bit of a tree that blew down in a storm on the lathe- not only is it free, but that's where you find the really unique wood. Pine and other softwoods can be really frustrating, so poplar wouldn't be my first choice, but if you can get it free, give it a spin- you may like it better than I do, at any rate. Dry basswood turns well, too- though when wet, it can be a real PITA.

Wear a face shield, at least when roughing. Especially when working with weak woods or blanks that still have the bark on them. As far as dust goes, I have a fan in the window, and that helps, though it's going to be dusty no matter what you do, at least as far as I can tell. You might get by without a dust mask depending on what wood you're using, I don't wear one with maple or birch, but it's pretty important if you're turning something like cedar or walnut.

These ones helped me out a lot:

For basic turning info For preparing and turning green wood Plenty of other good ones, too. Not a bad idea to ask Leif to send you his LDD treatise. Some people like it, some don't- I get better results when I use it, so I stick with it, even though it uses a lot more sandpaper.

Geez, Mac- you're in the wrong part of the world. If you ever happen to be in the Wisconsin area, ping me, and I'll give you a whole maple tree, if you want. Might even throw in a birch, too. Got about 20 sq. miles of forest land 10 minutes from my front door, and it's all maple, oak and birch- with a few pines thrown in just to make sure your hands don't stay too clean. $20 permit lets you harvest all the deadfall you can carry for a year, and some of that stuff is like solid gold bricks out there! Don't have the fruit trees or exotics, though. I'd sure like to have some hedge apple or boxelder, but I'm too far north for those. We get the odd cherry or willow tree here and there, but that's about as exciting as it gets.

Welcome Ed

I'm also a fairly new turner 1 1/2 yr.

3 things that I would consider a must. Great site !! build the Oland tool. Bill Grumbine - Turned Bowls made easy.DVD Alan Lacer - The skew chisel DVD

I read the suggested books but theres nothing like seeing it done. Watch them first and avoid bad habits.

TTFN

RandyD

The largest I was able to turn out came in around 9" - but like you said, Prometheus, that requires a round blank to start with. Most of my bowls measured around 8". If you are careful with preparing the blanks - even with a chainsaw - you can minimize the amount of wood you must take off.

Prometheus,

Terrific response. Really appreciate the detail.