hard or soft waste wood on faceplate?

Dennis.. I just make a ring collar chuck, from directions from Ken Vaughn's site...

If your blank has a flat face and roughly round bottom, this works great to work on the bottom of the blank, and also to finish the bottom later..

mac

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thanks, leo.. I haven't tried beating the shit out of it yet, but i like the idea..*g*

Seriously, it might be just the adjustment that I need, but with the rubber mallet, not the BFH...

OH.. by tenon, are you referring to a stub that you tighten the jaws on, or a "round groove" that you grip by expanding the jaws? I've been interpreting a tenon as an "innie" and a base as an "outtie", but I've noticed that some folks say tenon to mean either one..

mac

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Hi Mac

Since my native language is Dutch, I have to try to make sure that I use the right words and so I checked the dictionary, it says "tenon, projection shaped to fit into a mortise". So yes a stub that's sticking out and the recess is of course an "Innie" as you say, and yes some may not know what they are talking about . You know its hard enough already so it helps if we do not get all mixed up and call a spade a spade and an "outy a stub and an innie a recess"

have fun and take care Leo Van Der Loo

mac davis wrote:

What jaws are you using? If you're using the serrated type

you're going to have to expend extra effort in reverse chucking. These distort the wood as you tighten them, especially if you _tighten_ them, like the "Key Features" section implies with its "power clamping" bullet. What keeps the thing true is the part you jam up against the flat you made in the base, so you want to have that tight up against the chuck before you begin to secure it. Make sure you've got a good center mark, snug the tailstock up into the center, and then tighten the chuck. Still won't always be perfect, because the design is such that it can't hold a wooden circle without distortion, exacerbated by the symmetrical serrations, but it will be as good as it gets. Better is the dovetail hold, where smooth jaws can be secured outside or inside a smooth circular section, then wedged against the flat section outside the tenon or inside the recess as they are expanded/contracted. It can hold a circle without distorting it. Just make sure that you cut a slightly steeper angle than the steel so the wedging action engages before the "grip."

So the critical factor in all is the flat surface formed by the nose of the closed jaws, which should still be flat as the chuck opens. If not that, never will run true save by accident when you reverse. If you've got the jaws in the picture, I suggest you use them for single mount turnings, and hope that you don't take so long that the piece begins to dry and contract, because resecuring will always be a crapshoot.

George... right now I have the spigot jaws attached.. I was going to get the #1 jaws, but I had a great recommendation from Jim Pugh to get the spigot instead..

SO, it sounds like I missed one thing when checking the chuck.. even though it appears to be running true, I'm basing it on what I'd call in/out of round, but not "wobble" factor.. I'll check the flatness/alignment of the jaws this morning.. THANKS! (I have no patience, so I turn the whole thing in one or 2 nights, so no warping so far)

mac

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Leo.. it took me weeks to figure out what "CA" meant... I knew they weren't filling cracks with California, but had no idea that they meant super glue.. lol

BTW, I finally looked at your web site last night... you owe me about

3 hours sleep now.. *g* Great site with lots of info and things to stir the creative juices!

mac

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Some of the same problems when gripping, as you can see. Can't fit without distorting the wood, and the symmetry of the serrations makes it a 50/50 proposition if they'll push away from the shoulder or draw toward as the wood deforms. Great thing about dovetail is it draws only toward.

Push up tight against the front of those things and _then_ begin to tighten. To confirm good clean faces, just touch the jaws to the tenon while pushing against the shoulder with the tailstock and confirm you're concentric.

On the up side, you can start bowls easily on these, as I do with my pin jaws, and they should never fly off the lathe like those spur-centered starts do. Get some dovetailed jaws like

and your problems will disappear.

Hi Mac

If you don't know something, ask, there will probably be someone who knows, I know, some people think it looks stupid if they ask a question about something everybody else seems to know about, well in my opinion the only stupid question is the one that is NOT asked.

Now you said they weren't filling cracks with California ? I thought that's exactly what they where using to fill the Andrea's fault line crack in CA. Thanks for the compliment, I do have to get some more pictures up and change some data, a lot more of the bowl got sold and old prices seem out of whack with the present pricing, problem is I rather do the turning than the pricing and the web side changing.

Have fun and take care Leo Van Der Loo

mac davis wrote: >

Mac, When you close up the jaws in the chuck without anything in them do they close uniformly and butt against each other fairly tightly? Do you have a regular set of #2 jaws for the chuck you can try. I have the #1 spigot jaws for my Stronghold and I don't really like them for holding bowl tenons. I can't say I've had the grief you seem to be experiencing but I prefer the regular jaws. billh

George.. I do have a set of the jaws shown, the chuck came with the

2's.. (see my reply to Bill, below)

mac

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Bill.. at George's suggestion, I checked the spigot jaws and when closed, one jaw is very, very slightly further forward than the other

3.. I took them off, cleaned the inner jaws, etc., and put them back on, making sure that only the jaw with the pin was in the same position as before.. still didn't seem even, so I took them off for now..

Went back to the #2 jaws that came with the chuck, and they seem, if not exactly flush at the ends while closed, closer than the spigot jaws were..

I've checked everything on the chuck and can't see what would make one outer jaw stick out more than another, so I'm thinking that I might need to true the ends of the other jaws with emory cloth or something..

mac

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That's exactly my problem, Leo... I'd rather be turning than the web pages.. Since I have to do web pages to pay the bills, it's a real fight for priorities.. *lol*

I'm finding myself out on the lathe instead of the computer more and more lately during "business hours".. good thing I work at home!

mac

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[snip]

Mac, My Stronghold spigot jaws are dead flat across the tops (by eyeballing when closed). You don't say how much they are out. Do you have a instrument capable of accurately measuring them the variation in height? You might want to give Oneway a call but I would try to get a measurement first since they will probably want that info. I understand they are very helpful with any concerns about their products. Have you measured how true the chuck body runs on the lathe? A dial indicator is great for this. billh

Bill.. I'll have to dig out the dial gauge, I haven't measured, just "eyeballed" and felt...

With the #2 jaws, you can run your finger over the jaws when closed (lathe not running!!) and feel the joints between the jaws but not any "height" difference between the jaws..

With the spigot jaws, you can see the higher/longer/whatever jaw buy eye and feel it enough that if you han your finger nail across the surface of the closed jaws, the high one would stop your nail..

The really strange part is that if I put any of the 3 jaws there, (pinned one has to stay in place) the jaw in that position is high... but none of the #2 jaws in that position are high...

It would seem that when the Spigot jaw sits there, the inner jaw is off true, but when a #2 jaw sits in the same place, the inner jaw is fine.. wouldn't that be impossible?

mac

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I normally do rough outs and leave a tenon as opposed to a dovetail recess. If you leave the tenon larger than that which gives you "full coverage" with the chuck jaws, you can jam chuck the dried piece with the oval temon, true up the tenon and outside and chuk to reverse the inside. A dovetail recess would also, I expect, be out of round after drying. My guess is that this would be harder to re-true than a tenon as you don't have the nice convenient depression from the tailstock left from the roughing operation.

Kip Powers Rogers, AR

That's why you plan ahead, all right. The wood's going to distort the same regardless of your holding method, so you want to know where both centers were to reference for re-turning.

My pin jaws/chuck method is quick, easy, and reliable, though you could as easily leave a modest 1/2" rise in the inside bottom of the bowl, bore a "shoulder" with that 35mm Forstner you use for cabinetry, then a concentric smaller bore to use as your centering reference. This works for folks who core their wood, either by gripping inside, or jamming a mandrel centered in the small hole, shouldered on the larger.

I suppose if you're one who follows the new belief that bottoms need to be roughed thinner than the sides, you'd have to use the sides themselves against the chuck. Just tougher to maintain a good aspect until you're ready to reverse.

Some points that might help.

1. Make sure jaws are in the right place. Most chucks have both the jaws and where they attach to the chuck numbered. If you have the #1 jaw segment on the #2 chuck position you got trouble.

1. When attaching jaws - With the chuck slightly open, put on all jaws but don't tighten the screws, leave them a little loose. Then tighten the chuck all the way closed. Now snug the screws pretty tightly in the same way as you would when changing a tire (alternate in/out and side to side). Finally, open the chuck a little and completely tighten the screws.

2. Make sure the tennon isn't long enough to bottom out in the chuck and that you turn a flat on the bowl to mate with the top surface of the jaws. The tennon doesn't position the bowl, it's there only to grip. The top surface of the jaws meets the flat on the bowl and that's what positions the bowl.

1. The chuck should screw down all the way and meet the reference surface on the spindle. If there is any gap you got trouble. Solve the problem, if it exists, by getting a spindle washer (not one from the hardware store) these are ground to have perfectly parallel sides. Hope this helps.

If you are working with unseasoned or partially seasoned stock, the problem may be that the tenon is "moving" and changing shape. What I do is jam chuck the bowl to be finish turned, true the tenon and outside, then chuck up and work the inside. Rarely use a dovetail recess, but expect that a similar strategy might work.

Hope this helps!. If I'm not making myself clear, please feel free to get back to me in group or by email

Kip Powers Rogers, AR

Kip.. perfectly clear, thanks... My problem seems to be the spigot jaws, no problem with the #2 jaws... but some operator error involved, too..

This problem occurred with green or kiln dried wood... and on the green stuff , the tenon was cut right after turning on center, then put on the chuck when the tenon was done..

mac

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