Making some tools.

Any comments on making some tools out of stainless? Also, assuming I can get some good HSS, about how far into the handle should the steel be imbedded? I realize that a good deal depends on what the tool will be used for (deep hollowing with a gouge, versus a small scraper). How's a bout a percentage figure say 20% in the handle and the rest outside? Thanks

Reply to
Kevin
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am talking to a machinist about making a lathe head for me... also asked about making 2 HSS tools... lets not go there on price... BUY THE TOOL, unless its something REALLY off the wall... Stainless in his words is a PITA to machine, as is HSS... --Shiva--

Reply to
--Shiva--

Much stainless seems to make really pretty tools that don't keep their edge very well. I would suggest HSS, O1 or A2, which is tough, takes a good edge and holds it for quite a while. It is also fairly inexpensive. Now...if you are going to make skews and scrapers, it is dirt easy. Get some 1/4" or 3/8" thick still of the appropriate width, and, using a good hacksaw (or, like I do - a Milwaukee PortaBand) cut out the appropriate shape. I will typically put about a 3" tang on the tool, although 4" is not bad either. Making a gouge is a slightly more complicated process. The "best" way to do it is to take a flat sheet of metal and use a big press to curve it into the appropriate curve. This flows the grain in such a way to increase the strength and durability of the metal. However, if you are going to make a bowl gouge, you probably could make a decent one by taking a rod of HSS and grinding (or milling) out an appropriate groove in it. You might want to post to the rec.metalworking newsgroup, as there are a lot of folks on there that know a WHOLE lot about making metal into useful shapes. Regards Dave Mundt

Reply to
Dave Mundt

I've made a few of my own tools - narrow parting, skews and scrapers - the common stuff. The workshops and reading I've done have indicated that stainless steel is an inferior steel for a cutting edge. There are additives in the steel that give it the "stainless" quality at the expense of edge sharpness and retention. The reason it's used so widely in kitchen cutlery is a marketing ploy - the kitchen knives of my grandmother's era (pre-'50's or so) of high-carbon just looked dark and tarnished very shortly after purchase. Not unsharp or unclean, but tarnished nonetheless. Someone came along and touted how clean the stainless appeared and the no-maintenance required - wash'n'store qualities. The rest is history. But, the fact remains that a high-carbon steel is a better cutting tool than a stainless steel one. For homemade tools, go with an O-1 (which uses an oil quench) or A-2 (air quench - if you have a heat source that will get the steel hot enough. It has to get and be held at a higher temp - 1750F or so if I recall - than oil quench steel - 1400F if I recall.)

Now, you really only need to put about 2.5"-3" of tang into the handle for a secure hold - for an 8-10" tool extension beyond the handle ferrule. On shorter tools, like my round skews, I made for detailing, the steel goes into the handle about 1.5" for a 3" or 4" tool extension. (Looks like I'm running at about 33%. BTW, the amount I inserted into the handle was just a "well, that looks about right" decision.)

_____ American Association of Woodturners Cascade Woodturners Assoc., Portland, Oregon Northwest Woodturners, Tigard, Oregon _____

Reply to
Owen Lowe

Don't ?

If you know what type it is, then you might get somewhere. If it's just random "stainless" though, chances are that it won't harden at all. None of the stainless will give you a tool that's worth the trouble of making it.

That's easy. Machining it is the fun part. I use M2 HSS from big power hacksaw blades and even with a plasma cutter to rough it out and a die grinder and belt linisher to shape it, it's hard going. It's also near-impossible for mortal man to heat treat it.

If you want to make some special tooling, then start with O1 (oil hardening) or W1 (water hardening) steels. Both are available at a reasonable price in very small quantities, and they come as ground-surfaced flat stock that's already soft. You can work A2 too (air-hardening), but it's impossible to anneal afterwards, should you need to.

If you're going for that backwoods vibe, then 1080 and 1095 are the steels to look for (truck leafsprings). They're easy to work and easy to heat treat, especially for smithing, but they won't have the wear resistance of HSS.

I wouldn't do this.

I wouldn't do this unless I was making green woodturning tools and I had some reason to want to forge them myself.

I wouldn't do this without forging them (so you'll need a hearth and anvil)

I certainly wouldn't try to do this for HSS or stainless. One is impossible to work, the other isn't worth working.

-- Do whales have krillfiles ?

Reply to
Andy Dingley

Not intending to be disrespectful, but why would anyone want to fabricate gouges and skews? With the plethora of those items available commercially, or from custom tool makers, why go to the trouble of making one's own? It would seem to be far easier to modify existing tools to one's desired configuration than to build new ones from scratch. I'd think it a better use of my time to turn wood rather than fabricate tools. But then I'm not retired.

Max

Reply to
Maxprop

PMFJI Max.

Yes, there's a plethora of *common* woodturning tools available commercially. It's often much cheaper and certainly easier to purchase those tools rather than making your own. However, there are all kinds of uncommon and specialized tools that are quite useful. Many times I found that I restricted my woodturning forms to the tools available rather than the reverse. I decided to just make or modify my own tools to fit my "vision" instead. To borrow your own phrase: "... but why would anyone want to" pay for fabrication of these tools when you can do it yourself and to your exact preferences. Often you might be quite surprised at just how easily and cheaply you can make one yourself.

I don't own a forge, specialized equipment or knowledge to make some tools but I can (and do quite often) make several kinds of tools. I mainly reproduce tools that I see in the catalogs just to try it out. If I like it and don't think I can equal the quality myself, I buy the tool commercially. I'm not normally going to try to make a tool and end up spending 4 times the money doing it rather than just buying it commercially. The common tools are just too cheap and easily found to be doing that for myself.

As for spending the time doing this, I look at it as a complete process. Just like it's a great thrill to work on a turning through all of it's stages, I enjoy the process of making a tool; using it on that turning; modifying the tool; and so on. I'm not retired either. I own and run a few businesses. Woodturning, for me, isn't just about putting a tool to wood. I take the time to learn, practice and perfect whatever supports that process and final outcome, be it chainsawing, drying, tool making, sharpening, form study, material working, finishing, photography, or display techniques. I expect this to be a long and, hopefully, fruitfull long-term endeavor for me. I'm sure it's not the same for others. But maybe that's a little insight into this novice tool maker/experimentor.

- Andrew

commercially,

Reply to
AHilton

Kevin Leave the stainless alone. Take a look at my web site under

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some ideas. I will have some others up there soon.

Reply to
Darrell Feltmate

`*snip*

No disrespect taken...and a very valid point. I can't speak for other folks, but, I like making my own tools for several reasons. 1) Poverty...while good turning tools are indeed, worth the investment, I am not always willing to invest THAT much cash in something that may not be "necessary". For example, I wanted a flat scraper that was 2 1/2" wide, and 1/4" thick. The metal for that cost me under $10. 2) I like working metal and making tools. While it requires a different mindset than turning wood, there is a similar magic in being able to take some random bits of unformed material, and come up with a useful tool. 3) I sometimes run into turning or woodworking situations where a commercial tool is "close" to what I need, but, not "good enough". It is handy to be able to cobble together something that will work perfectly. 4) Working with metal involves hammers and fire! How cool is THAT? Regards Dave Mundt

Reply to
Dave Mundt

Enjoying metalworking comes to mind! James Barley

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Reply to
James Barley

Reply to
Gerald Ross

commercially,

For the same reason that some of us...well, me anyway...brew our own beer and make our own wine. We get EXACTLY what we want and if it doesn't work, we can start over.

Most of my tools are, in fact, purchased, but I do have many scrapers and small skews that I've made either by just grinding a chunk of steel I had in stock or staying at work and making it "right" with proper hardening and drawing...all of which is just as much fun for me as turning a box or bowl or widget.

Mike

Reply to
The Davenports

Likely a different kind of stainless than that whch is going to be available to most folk. Almost any machine shop is going to have 303/304 series stainless laying around, which can not be hardened, but 400 series IS hardenable and most stainless kitchen knives are series 440c which will take and hold a pretty good edge, but won't take the sort of heat that woodturning can generate.

Pretty damn close on the temps...A-2 is 1700 to 1800 and O-1 is 1450 to

1525. O-1 can be heated hot enough with a propane torch, as long as the size of the tool isn't too large...say about 3/8" diameter and 6-7" long. A-2 can be flame hardened, but you'll likely only be able to get 2-2 1/2" of the tool hot enough.

Mike

Reply to
The Davenports

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions. I was a tool & die man for about 7 years and realized the inadequacies of ss but was unaware of that some could be hardened. All of the tools I have now are purchased but you know how it is when you wnat/need a particular grind to get the job done just like you want it? My thoughts were more along the lines of a few scrapers - square, rounded, perhaps a dovetail - for those projects that would benefit. Thanks again

-kevin

Reply to
Kevin

**************************************** Kevin, There are 2 easily made tools that you can make that I wouldn't be without. The first is a 3 sided tool in the shape of a pyramid. Grind a piece of HSS rod (3/8 or 1/2 in works well) so that you have 3 sides on the end at an angle from 30 to 45 degrees. Use it for plunge cuts, rolling beads, or where you would use a skew. The second is a HSS rod ground on one side (about 30 degrees) so that the final shape is like a wedge. It works best if the final flat surface is slightly concave, by placing the flat against the grinder so it gives it a clean edge all the way around. On both, a 6" to 9" rod with 2" in 8-10 " handle should be about right. You can see examples in the Packard and Craft Supplies catalogs. These have been used in England for years. If you want to adventurous, you can use a 1/4" or 3/8" wood chisel for a bedan. Just be sure the sides are not straight; they need to be tapered slightly for clearance. Good luck.

Ken Moon Webberville, TX

Reply to
Ken Moon

The second is a HSS rod ground on one side (about 30 degrees) so that

what do you use this one for?

whats a bedan?

Reply to
Reyd Dorakeen

It looks something like a diamond parting tool with the lower half sliced off.

-OR- It looks like if you took a straight ended scraper; flipped it over; then pinched the upper part of the steel just ever so slightly together.

If viewed with the sharp edge facing directly at you... _ /_\

If viewed from the side.... ___________ /___________

It's used like a parting tool or a skew. Works wonderfully on long, thin turnings with little room to move a skew around.

- Andrew

Reply to
AHilton

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