Musing about the disposal of tools 'beyond the grave'.

Now you know Arch, this is one your real "food for thought" winners.

I have been thinking for a long time what will happen to my tools when I am no longer able to use them for whatever reason that might be. I have been using/collecting/and working tools for about 35 years.

I am a contractor; I have too many tools. I have 4 lathes of different sizes (wtih an embarassing amount of tools), a couple of bandsaws, a nice radial saw, a table saw, a few large routers (one that lives in its table), 4 compressors, 17 nail guns (crap!) about 60 clamps of all sizes and kinds, a jointer, a board planer, 4 compound miter saws, a large stationary sander, hundreds of feet of extension cords, pneumatic tool hose, and too many small tools to count like drills, saws, etc. You get the picture; that's just the woodworking stuff.

A literal lifetime of accumulation.

Why not take the "club approach" a little farther, and give the tools (they want) to the club? Used tools have little value most of the time, and if stuck with them I am thinking my significant other would be much more annoyed than anything else. I would gladly sell them for a lot less than they are worth (when I am finished with them) to someone that would use and enjoy them.

I have no children, and few relatives. None have a passion for sawdust, so at this stage I think giving/selling cheap/ or bequething them the tools would be a waste. And it is terribly hard for me to think that a tool that I enjoyed using for a few years and one that made me money would be trashed.

I am thinking of my own father who determined that the highest and best use for his wonderful old radial saw - about 35 years old - was to cut firewood small enough to fit in his potbelly stove that he warmed his shop with while watching TV in the winter time. It was like a swiss watch, all machined and cast with no plastic.

He sold it to a guy that "took it off his hands" for $100 since he said he might be able to use it, but at least he could get it out of my Dad's way for him. He talked my Dad (a little over 80 years old with 5 strokes under his belt) that he was indeed doing him a favor, and the $100 was because he was a great guy.

I see this all the time. But now I am thinking, how many guys would like to turn on a Jet mini, little Carbatec or a Nova 3K variable? For some, they would certainly scoff at this. However, many in our little group have families and college ahead of them or are on fixed income, so they don't have the luxury of buying something to try it out.

We took a blind survey a few months ago, and the leadership of our group was aghast to learn how few had Oneways or Powermatics for their hobby. No one in our group is more than a really interested hobby guy, so while there are a few white and mustard colored lathes, there aren't many. I was the same with scroll chucks. I take it for granted as I have two... but some in our club have none.

With the financial burdens of some of these folks, this is not likely to change.

While the general carpentry tools could go somewhere else, it seems to me at the least that the club could use the lathes for demo work, or our open workshop days and then also have a lot of the necessary tools to turn/sharpen for some to try out.

Hmmm... the wheels are turning, Arch. Nice one.

Robert

I'm not at all sure that statement is true. If a particular inheritor has appreciation for a particular set of tools, far better those should go to that inheritor than that they should be farmed out for cash and the cash split up among all, IMHO. Perhaps some frank and open discussions of the sort immortals don't like to have (since it means facing mortality) with potential heirs would clear all that up ahead of time. I am, at present, not at all inclined to treat all my potential inheritors equally, as some are more deserving than others, based on the way they conduct their lives & finances.

The value of a set of tools has a great variance. One of the big variables is time - in both cases where I have bought lathes of the late departed, there was considerable value attached to getting them and all of their associated tooling out of the house in a prompt manner [real estate agents do not like substantial lathes in a house on the market, evidently]. I did not dicker, and consider the prices fair to both parties for ~120 year old lathes, while being way ahead of the curve for what you'd pay for an equivalent quality/weight new lathe. In both cases outside assistance by friends of the late departed had been supplied to the survivors in the pricing phase.

There are plenty of "used stuff dealers" who make their mint by buying out *everything* in a house, tossing the real junk, and selling the rest off piecemeal. The people they buy from could make more money if they took the time to do that, but choose not to (being interested in moving on with life, or blowing their inheritance at the track, or whatever).

As for replacement .vs. estate value, not even close. Estate tools are used, and the buyer can't speak to the previous user - the buyer has to make an assessment based purely on what they can see. "Replacement value" means "new tools from the store" to me.

It is certainly worthwhile to document your tools, especially if you have any particularly valuable ones which might not be obvious to your survivors (such as "rare, collectible antique tools" that look like "old junk" to your spouse), so they don't get fleeced if they come to dealing with a lowlife, but the fact is, they are not going to get what you paid for the stuff if it's ordinary common tooling, unless you got one heck of a deal on everything, and they take months or years to part it all out piecemeal. The same documentation will be of use if you are alive and dealing with insurance. Keep a copy or two at home and one in the safe deposit box.

In my experience, the best solution to this "problem" is available if the deceased turner is a member of a club. There is usually a surviving friend who can fairly price the tools, and see that they get into the hands of people who will use and appreciate them. I have bought tools at what I consider bargain prices at club-based estate sales--yet I think the estate got more than it would have by having the stuff sold off as a lot to some dealer.

Furthermore, there is a certain emotional value to the survivors in knowing that the tools are in the hands of friends. And, I know that when I use a tool that I obtained in this way, I think of the old friend from whom it came.

Thanks for bringing this up, Arch. My eyes are a little watery right now. You'll have to excuse me.

A most interesting and, for me, timely musing. I have a fairly large collection like most of us- carpentry, turning, metalwork, machinist, and general use junk tools. Some better than others, some maybe valuable antiques, some just old tools.

A quick guess, but about 50% came from my father when he died. I don't pick one of those up without having pop stand behind me and watch I don't slice a finger, like when I first started. His old Kennedy chest from a mechanic job before I was born now graces my (his/our) hobby and fine-detail tools. I still use his Machinery's Handbook (c 1952), and his micrometer. My brother has some of his other tools, and I'm sure has the same feeling for these old friends we grew up with.

My son will get the Kennedy chest when he graduates Mechanic school. In it will be his grandfther's micrometer, a 1952 edition of Machinery's Handbook, a lignum vitae mallet also from his g'dad and an old wood and brass folding rule.

We've had this discussion... one that was difficult for both of us because no one likes to face his own mortality, and certainly not a parent's mortality. My son's not much into woodworking. He prefers welding and metal arts, but he wants the tools when it's his turn for them.

As he said during our talk about it... "I'm not that good at woodwork, dad. I can use both of you watching out for my fingers"

Yeah, he's a bright one that kid, and I'm a very lucky father to have someone who not only wants these things I hold important, but will use them and treat them as they deserve. Tools going into yet another set of good hands.

Thanks Arch, for the musing.

tears came to my eyes when u all started this thread I have my dads lwo last carpenter tool chests he hand made over 60 years ago for job site and another for at hand tools. I grew up with theses chests and tools and remember fondly their being used daily , As it is I;m the last of the chain of family owners and i suppose they will endup in the estate sale hopefully their new owners will apprecitate them. Some times in the evening when things have been stressful and im burnt out from turning i sit and handle them and talk to his memory and things seem to work them selfs out tks..

Three 'rules':

1. Let the kids and grandkids pick through what she doesn't want - she does a fair amount of stuff herself.

1. Offer first crack at the remainder to friends.

2. Get one of my friends to price the un-mailable for local sale and the mailable for sale on e-bay, or whatever is similar Then.

Another thought that comes to mind, though it's perhaps even more difficult than talking with the folks that will likely be around when you are gone about your demise, and what you should do with things, is to consider which bits you are really going to be using (barring unexpected demise, which is the sort your base plan should cover, as your survivors get royally screwed if you've pretended that can't happen and it does) right up until you go, and which ones you're just hanging onto out of habit - and think about distributing some of the latter while you are still around to enjoy the results of handing them on to a new owner.

Robert, Lawrence, Leo, V. Radin, Don and Lobby, Your responses ornament this unmoderated ng. Many thanks.

It's a very long lecture not for everyone, but some of you might enjoy reading about the inheritance and dispersion of family tools and crafts long ago in America.

Turn to Safety, Arch Fortiter

Snip> Thus, a problem often arises re fair play not only

Snip> I don't know if the 'insured replacement' value

Arch, this whole subject is a constant nag to me. I am about to retire with no male next of kin, end of the family line. I am a woodworker of more than 45 years and so have accumulated a collection of purely user grade tools, including lathes and turning tools. When I was an apprentice in London there used to be a tool store in Clapham that bought tool boxes from carpenter/joiner widows for a set price of ?5 and would then part out the tools and offer them at a very large profit to apprentices and craftsmen. It meant that someone beginning a trade could afford good quality tools at less than new prices. Sometimes a real gem like a Norris smoothing plane or shoulder plane could be snapped up by a craftsman looking to improve his kit. Now there was a huge profit in this for the store that was located very close to a huge woodworking company Hamptons who employed hundreds of top notch carpenters and joiners. Maybe it provided a very necessary service to the trades and could be something that would work now. I have to get my head around the fact that woodworking has now become a multi million $ hobby industry and has very little to do with skill disciplines and learning a trade. Sure there are people looking to learn more than the "Norm" way of working with wood and all I can do is hope that at my estate sale there will be someone looking for some user tools and will not nail them to the rec. room wall! Thanks for the musing

You might wish to provide instructions to your executor about how to find the old tools list (lathe fans - this is a mailing list, rather than a newsgroup, dedicated to hand tool use & collection, which Peter and I both frequent), and have a posthumous FMM posting to get them into good hands...

Thanks Pete. Former apprentice, eh? That's a rare & endangered species today. I hadn't seen your very good site before. Your turnings are very pleasing and well done, but I was particularly interested in your beautiful strip built Abenaki (I think) canoe. I've been hoping to build one for years, even started to cut some strips and plywood forms, but ran out of space plus rediscovered my lathe. I wonder if you used the West system epoxy and cedar strips?

Turn to Safety, Arch Fortiter

Pete, Either my recent memory loss is getting worse or I didn't read your slide show narratives. Sorry!

Turn to Safety, Arch Fortiter

Thanks Arch, it is of interest although a bit of a ramble!

Thanks Arch. Saved it for later.

I recently bought several very nice power tools from a fellow who had cancer and could barely even walk and couldn't help at all in testing the tools or lifting. But he was selling everything off before he died. So this is another possibility providing your (my) death is not instant. It would be hard to give up the emotional attachment to the shop but how satisfying to know your tools are going at a decent price to people who want them.

He had bought all his tools from a Western Tool store and the owner of the store was actually sending customers to this fellow to help him out! How's that for customer service!! That's how I found out--I was looking for a spindle sander and a band saw. When I told the owner they were out of my price range he referred me to this fellow!

So we don't have to wait until we die.

Earl

Event though I'm pretty young this is an interesting subject for me since I am also a very worrisome tpe of fellow, I always worry about what is to come.

What I think I will eventually do (when I get to collect enough equipment) is to make a small catalog/inventory list of what I have and put an approximate value for each item. In addition you must talk to your spouse or relevant relative and explain about the list and where it is kept - not in a histerical manner but factuall. Obviously you must mark your items as well - so that understanding the list is feasible for the un-initiated...

In addition to this if I get to a point where I have someone to leave it for, that is the best solution. but at least my wife or inheritors will know what she/they have in hand, and would hopefully do the best thing with it.

Live long and prosper! and if you get to a yardsale or something like it, try and see if you can pay a fair price for items, don't try to pay less for something you know is worth more...

The Canoe is indeed cedar strip and West System Epoxy. Found out I was allergic to epoxy with this endeavor. Seems it is a gene thing as the caustic nature of the epoxy fumes attacks my eyelids. Ended up using old wet teabags on my eyes every day after using the epoxy. Got through it but never again! The canoe plans are in the Canoe Craft book and mine is the Chestnut Prospector. 16 ft long with a 32' beam and will carry

900 lbs. Total build time was around 80 hours. All the cedar came from a house wrecker's yard for $30CDN Now it is the lathe that I turn to for R & R Ooooh Pun Pun Pun

That is one of the reasons I joined the Porch :-)

======================== Hi, Now that camcorders are available in most households, or one can be borrowed from a friend, a visual inventory of all your machinery and hand tools, with the description and your estimate of value right there. This can then be burned to a CD or DVD for filing with your important papers. That way you don't have to be worried about magnetic degradation over time. CD media isn't permanent, but can be expected to outlast magnetic media by quite a bit, so long as they're protected from excess heat. Or, if you're paranoid, save a version in each media and store in separate locations. Either way, your executor will have a sight and sound description of everything you have (or had).

Ken Moon Webberville, TX.