For whom the lathes turn. Musing about selling wood turnings.

Excepting the mundane 'rent payer' items, does

Kip Powers Rogers, AR

Hi Arch

Yes I do sell, but-----

I think that I am not turning for turners, you know, ultra thin bowls and hollow forms that have been drilled cut burned and decorated, must be my dutch upbringing , I don't know of any turner that bought a turning of mine, and yes I'm not part of any parochial groups with the reciprocal buying of members products.

So no choice but to just keep on making my products the way I like them, and so far it seems there are a few people out there that do like them to.

My best products (Who is deciding??) seem to get confiscated before I ever get a chance to flaunt them.

Arch wrote:

Do you have a predominant design, i.e. bowls, hollow forms, utensils, candlesticks? Local or exotic woods? I need to decide what I'm going to sell. Thanks TomNie

Arch - I think that a lot of turners, pro or hobby buy turned work simply because they are drawn to it in the first place as their own hobby. And they probably understand better the amount of work and material selection that goes into a really nice piece. I don't think I have seen any pros that are so altruistic as to purchase another's piece as a sign of support, though. I think that could be a stretcher....

But I do think that a fellow turner or at least a fellow woodworker would indeed pay more since they would appreciate the piece more.

Robert

Hello, Tom. Not Kip, but here's my experience.

Turn thing that people don't feel bad about spending money on to buy for themselves. I only sell seasonally, and by far and away my best sellers for the last two years have been oil lamps. I buy the fit ups from Craft Supplies (listed in their catalogue as "confetti lamps"), and I can turn any old piece of stuff laying around to make a good lamp. They sell for about $40 to $55 bucks, and I sell as many as I make every year.

I also make ceiling fan pulls out of old bits and I sell them for $5, or 3 for $12. I made a homemade driver that fits in my Jacobs drill chuck I mount on my headstock and to me it works better than the lamp pull drives they sell at CS.

Last are things like pencil holders (too hard to sell but I still make a couple) and treenware (kitchen utensils) as they are too long in the making. I haven't been able to sell a wood spatula for more than about $12, and spoon for about $15 or $18. The spatulas take about an hour to make by the time you get them cut out, and turn the handle and main shape like I do, then sand out a little scoop and sharpen the edge, the sand, oil, sand, oil. Spoon take longer, even with my tungsten carving balls.

You might want to think about the candle stick idea. I had heard from one of the traveling demo guys that on two different occasions long slender candlesticks were outfitted with the best that Dollar General had to offer and they went out of balance with a taper in them. According to the story, being precariously balanced led them to be knocked over, and then a resulting fire. The maker was sued for a faulty and unsuitable design, and while I am sure they didn't get what they wanted, they did settle for something.

Just some food for thought. Hope you let us know what you decided.

Robert

Hi Tom:

I make mostly bowls and hollow forms using local Ozark hardwoods, big leaf maple burl and mesquite burl (the latter two being purchased as blocks). With my local stuff I try to find wood that has some figure or maybe "defects" (borer holes, etc.) to add some interest. Rarely use exotics except as an inlay, handle or other small detail. I've made a few candle sticks and think I still own all of them. Most of my stuff would be classed, I guess as decorative, relatively little plain vanilla treen type pieces. I enjoy making plates out of figured woods, but find that they sell pretty slowly. I think that pieces that are fairly tall (ie more vase like than bowl like) probably sell the best. Only reason that I can figure for this is that they can be displayed on a shelf or on a table top where as many of the lower silhouette pieces lose some of their impact if you cannot see the inside.

Hope this is of some help -good luck with sales!

Kip Powers Rogers, AR

Hi Tom:

I make mostly bowls and hollow forms using local Ozark hardwoods, big leaf maple burl and mesquite burl (the latter two being purchased as blocks). With my local stuff I try to find wood that has some figure or maybe "defects" (borer holes, etc.) to add some interest. Rarely use exotics except as an inlay, handle or other small detail. I've made a few candle sticks and think I still own all of them. Most of my stuff would be classed, I guess as decorative, relatively little plain vanilla treen type pieces. I enjoy making plates out of figured woods, but find that they sell pretty slowly. I think that pieces that are fairly tall (ie more vase like than bowl like) probably sell the best. Only reason that I can figure for this is that they can be displayed on a shelf or on a table top where as many of the lower silhouette pieces lose some of their impact if you cannot see the inside.

Hope this is of some help -good luck with sales!

Kip Powers Rogers, AR

Arch... IMHO, trying to sell my work to another turner would/wood be like a plumber selling his work to another plumber....

Most of the things that I sell are bought because the buyer thinks the creation was some sort of magic... to another turner, it would be too much about wall thickness, bowl depth, finish, etc. then about the wood and the basic "touchy-feely" reason to pick something out..

Tom... sorry if this offends, but IMHO, you don't concentrate on what will sell... you do your best work on what you do well and see what moves in your market...

You're never going to get your equipment investment back, so enjoy your hobby and see what folks will buy....

Again, this is just MY opinion, but if you're going to learn to make what sells, you might as well send one to chi-wan and have them make a few thousand for you... YMWV

Mac

My mileage does seem to vary Mac. I sell through a store here in Juneau, and I've more than paid for my shop. Most of my tools/machines were purchased after I started selling and I still have $ left over for fishing gear! I try to make what will sell, but I also try to make them as well, and I make things I enjoy turning. Gotta keep it fun.

It varies from year to year too. Some years salad bowls practically walk out the store by themselves. Other years, it'll be some other item. Go figure.

Last month another turner did buy one of my items - a salad bowl I think. He was up from California on a cruise ship. As far as I know he's the only turner to ever buy something of mine, but I never meet my customers since I don't do craft shows anymore.

S'later...

...Kevin

You're a lucky guy, Kevin!

I don't try very hard to sell my stuff yet, mostly friends and referrals, but looking around the shop at several thousand bucks worth of tools, I don't even want to figure how many bowls or whatever I'd have to sell to cover that.. assuming that wood and supplies were free, of course.. *g*

Mac

I've sold a few items in the past to friends needing gifts for wives, girlfriends or mothers.

Several people have suggested to me that I put things one ebay. However with the charges that they tack on I'm not sure how profitable it can be.

I figure about $15 an hour when I price something I make these days but I know people that set a price of $30 or even $60 (their stuff is perfect compared to mine). However, the $15 an hour is optimistic. A hollow form may take an afternoon or sometimes a couple afternoons if I'm starting from a raw log. Then there is the finishing and sanding and fixing of checks etc so I'm actually getting much less.

Arch wrote:

My experience echoes Kevin's (hi Kev, long time, no see, buddy). I have tried pretty much everything in woodturning at one time or another. Sometimes when I come up with a line of items I am especially fond of and they don't sell well, then I am disappointed because if they don't sell I don't have an excuse to make more of them. Sometimes things will sell well, but only if the price is too low to make it worth my while. On the other hand, I don't make things I don't enjoy purely for the purpose of making sales. Life's too short for that. So I have weeded out things that don't sell and things I don't enjoy making and have ended up with is a range of hollow forms, vessels, and weed pots that I enjoy making over and over again on a continuing basis. That keeps me happy and also keeps the sales coming in.

As for sales to other turners, the reports I get from my galleries are that not often do other turners buy my work. More commonly, they come in, study the pieces on display, and then go home and try to do it themselves. And that's okay.

-mike paulson, fort collins, co

Many thanks for all your responses. They made me rethink the question: That we turn primariIy for ourselves is a given, but forget that for now _please. I should have asked if you turn more for other turner's approval (not necessarily for their purchase) or for the general public's acceptance? I know the lathes 'turn for thee', but the better paraphrase here would have been; 'Ask not for whom the lathes turn, they turn for other turners'. Well maybe so, but not always.

Lathes also turn for customers, family and friends. They must else there would not be so many weed pots, candlesticks, oil lamps, little salad bowls and all the other common items that are so often seen on the shelves and tables of the public, but are seldom seen on the tables of our instant galleries. Some do show up on the pic forums, but usually only if unique or very well done, which raises another question.

I hear all the time that we should _always turn every object the very best we can. Is turning out simple objects to the standard of public acceptance and affordability doing the very best we can? I think it can be. We all turn lots of these bread & butter items for our customers and friends, but in our pic forums, clubs and instant galleries you might not think so.

Are some of us beginning to feel a little guilty about serving bread & butter even as we recognize that serving truffles & caviar isn't always appropriate or even the best we can put on the table. "Our Best" is probably a "Movable Feast".

Of course, I'm not sure of what I'm trying to say. That's the beauty of musing. :)

Turn to Safety, Arch Fortiter

I am a lucky guy. But I guess I outta say that I didn't outfit my shop all at once - I'd got a new toy or two each year for several years running. Now I have pretty much all the basics except room! ;-)

Of course, there's still room for improvement. I have a 6" Sears jointer that is worthless as side pockets on a pig. No matter how I adjust it, the edge comes out concave. Frustrating as all get out. One of these days I'll upgrade it.

Wouldn't mind upgrading my Nova to a Stubby some day too, but that's a lot of salad bowls! In the mean time there's fishing gear to buy...

...Kevin

Arch.. I know that I'm not Joe Average, but I could care less what other turners think about my stuff.... I'm the one guy at the club meetings that doesn't do show & tell... unless it's a tool or something that might help someone..

After meeting several professional turners, which I guess I am classified as, I promised myself and my family that I'd never depend on the turning income.. too damn many constraints..

If it's a hobby that pays some back, it stays fun, IMO... If I have to start worrying about how much time I have invested in something or if an item will be popular and/or profitable, a lot of the fun is gone..

I remember something that George said a few years ago when he was talking about the sweep of the chisel down the bowl side... that he didn't get the cut that he wanted and had to scrape, which needed to be sanded... The bottom line, which IS intended as a pun, is that he said that he had $60 worth of time in a $25 bowl, or something like that... and that's just not my temperament when I'm working on the lathe..

An average pen takes me 5 or 10 minutes to turn and up to an hour sanding and buffing... should I only spend 1/2 the time sanding to increase my profit margin? Maybe use friction polish and skip the buffing? I guess I could really increase my profit if I send a bowl to chi-wan-ea and had them send 10,000 copies... *g*

Sure, I do find things to make that might have a market, but only if it's something that I want to learn or try... Ceiling fan pulls would be a good example of that... I really don't like spindle work but know that it's something that I need practice at, so I got a lamp pull mandrel and had at it... very much like pens.. As I was doing the first crude ones, I realized that this could be a nice little market in Baja when we move... most homes down there have at least 3 fans, we just took 5 down to our builder...

If they sell, it's a nice feeling to know that someone likes your stuff enough to want to own it... If they don't sell, they're made of scrap and were time well spent... and they make a gift that nobody else gives.. *g*

Damn.. I think I've achieved a minor musing!!

I have to jump in here, since Robohippy didn't...

My wife and I met Robo when he was down in our area doing a show and one of the things that he was selling were kitchen brushes for about $20 each... A guy was looking at them and we talked a bit.. he was a furniture refinisher that was a hobby turner... He offered to buy a brush if Robo would tell him how he attached the bristles to the handle... He got a brush and the info and Robo got a sale.. a win-win situation! Mac