Whew! What a thread! I can't remember a thread this long in a long, long time. But, it has been entertaining, educational and quite revealing.
In view of it, I think a lot of really fine turners may now think twice about the collections they allow their work into, and subsequently, their names and reputations associated with. Getting your work into yet another "collection" may not always be a "good thing".
Given it's current quality, my work may never make it into any "collection", unless it's my wife's, which is located on top of our refrigerator.
Sometimes, even when people ask quite straight forwardly for "constructive criticism", all they really want is blathering adoration. Things may not always be what they appear to be.
As for me, I'll take my leave now. I thought this thread would have died a natural death long before now, so let me do my part towards that end.
Barry Thanks for the heads up - am sure collectors will be delighted to distribute funds elsewhere. And as I have minimal US representation - your reputations, such as you believe them to be - are safe. Bye Barry
Oh, give it up for heavens sake! You sound like a little child who didn't get the last cookie on the plate. It is your site, make it look however you want. But...when you ask for opinions or criticism, don't get all bent out of shape if some of it is negative.
This is a wood turning forum and we have wasted far too much bandwidth on this trivial subject. Let's get back to turning.
Jonathon, would you be so kind as to show us pictures of your turnings, since you obviously are a self-proclaimed expert on what perfection in turning (and, apparently website design) happens to be. I loved the part of your FAQ where you indicate (paraphrasing now) the criteria you base your purchase decisions on is 'we know it when we see it'. Boy, that is some impressive display of your insight.
What I'm most amused by is your inference that US turners (no matter what quality of their work) should somehow feel grateful for you including them in your collection. Also, do you honestly feel that because you like turned wood and have bought a lot of it that you somehow deserve some special respect?
At the minimum - if you truly want your collection to be esteemed by more than just your inflated view of yourself - you should include details about a piece (I mean discussion points, not close-up pictures of construction details) that give some insight as to what is special about it (in your opinion, or better yet the artist's). Give the pieces some context. In this day and age, it is trivial to find examples of turning equal to and in many cases exceeding in quality the pieces you display, and without the self-righteousness you exude. Just type "woodturning gallery" into Google and you'll find countless examples of such sites.
I would love to meet you on a rugby pitch and give YOU a turn with my forearm.
Ah - your last paragraph speaks volumes - if in doubt resort to violence. Not would that be indiscriminate carpet bombing or precision laser targeted - oops they are the same thing.
Trivial examples of turning equivalent to and in many cases exceeding the quality displayed - WOW you must really be a good turner and a superb judge, a museum curator perhaps or just an arrogant ass - rich following on the judgement you made earlier. If you would care to post your real name, when turners and those we should be looking out for, both in the US and the UK, I can make sure you are given proper consideration. Or perhaps you judge a piece by weight?
We buy what we like - in a number of cases, this is in competition with some US collectors - so clearly we are both lacking in taste. A point for further discussion perhaps.
Frankly based on your diatribe I could care less what you think about what we have - your comments bring into serious question your judgement and the way in which you solve disagreements risible. Get a life.
If you care so little, why do you feel compelled to continue these comments? Or, is it to once again prove you are the "south end of a northbound horse?"
I wasn't "resorting to violence", just saying that if we were to meet in competition on a rugby pitch it wouldn't disappoint me. I'm not going to fly across the pond just to hunt you down. I'm not pretending to me some erudite intellectual (I can't wait to hear your retort to that little hook).
As for my turning judgement, I never puported to be even a passable turner (in fact I specifically stated that I have no such skills or experience). My whole point was that you have offered no such evidence either, and yet you still hold judgment as if you are some classically trained prodigy in the intracacies of turned wood evaluation. More pointedly, why should anyone care what you think anyway?
Do you honestly think that simply because you compete in bidding for something that somehow you've proven it has some special value? I've been to enough auctions to know that it is no measure of someones insight or wisdom simply based on how much they can spend on something. It IS a measure of how much YOU value it, but really that is all.
I never said anything bad about your collection specifically - in fact the few items I bothered to look at WERE quite nice. It is your personal approach to other's opinions that seem to be questionable.
I'll leave you with a favorite quote of mine that seems more than appropriate in this case:
"Endowed with a stupidity which by the least little stretch would go around the globe four times and tie."
The off-list reply was NOT appreciated. I spoke to you through this list and if you feel compelled to reply, do it here. Unsolicited e-mail is considered spam. So, along with the other things, you are now a spammer.
Is it just me, or is WoW painfully slow? It feels like MyFamily.com is running on someone's ancient 286 machine. Too bad, because for me it makes a really nice site all but unusable.
And you think that "you're a prick" allied to "shove it up your ass" reflects well on the US? Perhaps its a dialect thing - but we're not usually that rude to people straight away.
I looked at it earlier and it was really slow. This has been going on for at least a week. Herman mentioned problems and that he is keeping on top of the "My Family" folks in an effort to get it resolved. There was some discussion of putting WoW on a dedicated host and charging users a fee. That will not likely be resolved until they figure out the problems with the current host.
After reading a lot of posts in this thread, I almost passed on taking a look but finally couldn't resist just out of curiousity.
I found the site quite appealing, and didn't think the up/down arrows to be counterintuitive at all but I wish they were a bit larger. They were barely little specks on my 21" screen with 1152 x 870 resolution.
I thought the full size images in a new window, with the click-to-close feature, was great. Never saw that before.
The artist list jumping back to top after clicking on an artist's name was a bit annoying, I wish I could suggest a fix for that but my webskills aren't that advanced.
I think the full name of the artist in the thumbnail frame would be a nice improvement.
I'm not sure why you recommend a large resolution for the site, it can be viewed fairly easily in an 800 x 600 pixel window since the page frame is 700 x 500.
It's a shame this thread had to turn out so negatively, I'm sure it would have been different if all involved met personally instead.
June 6, 2004, to be exact. Prior to that, January 1, 2004. (Not to pick nits, but I recalled earlier posts concerning the Daniel Collection and I had a hard time believing it had been 2-3 years since reading them.)
I am late to this thread, and was chagrined at the sad way it developed early on. I could comment on why I think this happened, but I think I will forego getting into the fray, and confine my comments to woodturning and page display/design.
As to the scrolling/display situation, I had early problems because my default browser is Opera ..(if I click on a link in my newsreader, it is opened in Opera) . It seems there are 'differences' in how Opera interprets some features, most noticably color background, which remains white, no matter what I do. Also, Opera did not originally recognize scrolling at all, but that seems to have been the result of some of my settings, which can override the settings of site designers. (When I tried to change settings, Opera didn't seem to adapt easily and closed...and even 'seemed' to cause my entire PC to re-boot to adapt to the new setting... *shrug*)
Fortunately, I often use the Mozilla "Firefox" browser, and upon opening the page in it, I seem to see the page 'as it was intended'. ...There are still some differences in the two browsers, even beyond the background color issue.....in Opera, on the 'home' page, the two arrows originally are smaller, and point at 45 degrees inward, as if 'waiting', then become larger 'up' and 'down' arrows when I mouse-over the upper one. In Firefox, the arrows are in the full size up/down configuration at all times.
As to page design and scrolling direction...it took me about 3 seconds to realize the way the arrows worked...the up arrow moved the text or list 'up'...etc. I might not have done it this way, but since there were only two choices, I adapted rather quickly.
Since Opera continues to NOT display the complete page as intended, I will refer to the Firefox view. (Opera simply does NOT, so far, display the black background OR the decorative art work/graphic above the thumbnail panel!)
In Firefox, my impression is of a clean, uncomplicated page with easy navigation, once I realized what the mouse-over trick was supposed to do. Nothing detracts from the emphasis on the wood as the point of the page, and I was able to quickly look at various artists (some of which I know, and some I don't).....
Regarding the pop-up window with right click 'disabled'....In Firefox, I get a separate, pop-up, which closes if I right click on it...in Opera, I don't...it simply opens a 'forward' page, which I could save easily if I had the inclination.....then I go 'back' to the thumbnail set again. There 'are' settings in Opera to control how this works, (and I also use a filter program called "Proximitron' which may partially control pop-up behavior...have not checked)
As to 'taste' and 'style'...well, my goodness! *grin*...that IS personal! Anyone who collects shows certain general preferences, just as anyone who TURNS does! There are many elegant examples of various artistic preferences shown....and often, as might be expected, reflecting emphasis on UK/European styles. I see pieces that I would be proud to have turned, and pieces that I never would have even tried, as they are not what *I* do...but most seem like excellent examples in their way.
I do appreciate the comment about wishing to know and meet the artists, as I hate to sell one of my pieces to someone I have not met. I do occasionally, in a gallery or 'boutique', where I am not there constantly....but then I don't get to talk 'wood' with those who admire it, or tell the story behind the piece, where the tree grew, why I made the piece curve this way rather than that...etc. It is important for ME to know where my creations are going...even if, as often happens, they are slated to be gifts. I am often told, "oh, this is for my uncle who LOVES wood, and he used to have a Plum tree."...etc.
In the UK, I am told, there is not nearly as much 'free' wood...fallen trees and forests and the like, and many artists buy wood commercially, and I'd think this affects their decision about how to use it, price it, and market it. I sometimes buy interesting and exotic wood, but most of what I have is just 'found' wood, and given to me by friends. (My best sales the last couple of years were pieces made from roots of Yew shrubs dug up by friends!)
Well, I have rambled, I see....perhaps if I had seen this discussion earlier, I might have said less, with more thought than trying to sort it all out at once.
In short....except for the eccentricities of Opera, I like the site, appreciate 'most' of the works displayed....and note that Jonathan seems willing to talk wood, design and collecting when the furor over debating styles dies down..*grin* ...(we humans haven't yet learned to use this virtual medium yet, it seems....stuff is said that I doubt would ever come up if we all met in a room together).....
I shall read further 'discussion' with interest...and trepidation)
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