the discouraged beginner

Hang in there.

My first turnings came our really well and then suddenly I had a string of turnings that came apart on me or that I would have a really nice piece going and suddenly I would get a catch and there would go several hours work.

Don't let it get you down. As you work on something if it doesn't work out see if you can use it to try turning something different. I have learned a lot from that.

It really is fun

Brian

You know, (he mused) it's hard to figure out how to help when your e-mail is munged and we don't know where you are. If you look at my sig line you'll see the URL for the AAW. There is a link on that page to the state/local chapters. If yo can find one near you, the odds are that you can find someone who can help you. I take it that you didn't take woodshop in school. Dave in Fairfax

Hello gramps,

Chuck had a good suggestion- get a piece of good green wood. It cuts really well and makes those lovely long shavings. Also, Raffan has a good point in one of his books. - Start with a cut you are good at and build on it. Getting that cut is a matter of practice.

Dave,

I dont know if I am looking for help. I guess in my ramblings i was looking for support from others that have been through the same process. OR maybe I needed to hear that i am just an uncoordinated bafoon. It is just venting.

I did not take any shop in school. I began the process of woodworking about a year ago. It was not as painfull as this has been.

BTW Im in Los Angeles

Thanks

I second that. I "learned" on KD red oak and KD pine. Both are nasty to turn. The first time I got a wet cherry log on the lathe, it was like a little slice of heaven.

When I do demos at the local craft fair, I let pretty much anyone have a turn at turning. Kids get scrapers, adults get a gouge. Nobody has failed to do it right yet, you can too.

OTOH an instructor that waits a week before any hands-on, then "unleashes" his students without an initial one-on-one hands-on, is not my ideal instructor. If it were me, I'd have everyone making shavings the first day - just back and forth, turning logs into streamers.

Another thing to consider is to find a local turner (check the AAW roster for local clubs) who can give you some practice time, while watching to see how you're doing it. There are a few common mistakes that can be easily corrected (and should be corrected before they become habits) if someone watches.

Despite appearances, turners tend to be a helpful lot. Many of the peole here had someone show them how to do something, asking or receiving help isn't something to be ashamed of. Didn't pople show you how to golf? Most of us help others who want to learn, all you have to do is be willing to accept help. Venting on the OTOH is also goood clean fun. Dave in Fairfax

Being new at this also, I can understand your frustration. But as I tell the kids I teach computer stuff to, playing with something is one of the best ways to learn. How I started was to take a piece of green hardwood, put it on the lathe and make little baubles, or turned x-mas decorations. I didn't matter a whole lot what they looked like, and I could try anything I wanted to, inside curves, banding, whatever, and if it broke or came out different than I wanted, no big deal. As that little old Painter on TV used to say, "There are no mistakes, just happy accidents."

Oh, Grampa, don't be so discouraged. You're just finding out that there IS a learning curve to nearly everything. I don't think there's a turner here or at any other gathering of said addicts, who would say that they've learned all that there is to know. We all learn something every time we pick up a tool and poke it at a spinning piece of wood, no matter how refined our particular "pokes" may be.

Stick with it, get away from the PINE and try your hand a nice piece of green hardwood for some real pleasure. If my 11-year-old nephew can do it, you can too. Sounds like the wood the instructor gave you is half the problem. What a lousy thing to inflict on students! UGH!

-- Chuck *#:^) chaz3913(AT)yahoo(DOT)com Anti-spam sig: please remove "NO SPAM" from e-mail address to reply. <

September 11, 2001 - Never Forget

Greetings and Salutations...

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 08:01:15 -0800, "grampa simpson" wrote:

Good Deal!

Hum...I can understand the annoyance factor of watching an expert, as they DO make it look SO easy. Richard Raffen comes to mind, as he peels away vast amounts of wood with his skew with no catches and no apparent stress or strain. It is possible but, there is a learning curve. Hang In there!

First off, I hope that the teacher is moving about the classroom and doing some individual instruction to help overcome that frustration. Secondly, I don't think that pine is the BEST thing to learn on. most of the pine available today sucks as wood, and, is hardly good enough for concealed stud construction in houses. It is too soft and difficult to turn for learning on. The only "good" thing about it is that it is cheap. I would suggest that you get a chunk of Poplar from a local lumber yard, or, contact one of the local arborists to see if you can get a limb or two from one of their jobs. Learning to turn on Green wood is probably the best way to start, because it requires learning the same skills, but, is far more forgiving than kiln dried stuff. Also, what tools are you using to try and round the stock off. You should be using a gouge of some sort (and NOT a bowl gouge). Finally, of course, if the tool is not sharp, it is going to be a lesson in frustration no matter HOW you approach it. As part of the course, the instructor really should have a section on sharpening tools (and, frankly, IMHO, should have STARTED with that). It would be really helpful to make contact with your local woodturning group (and I am sure there is one handy). The folks in it are all turning for the love of it (true amateurs) and can be a valuable resource and support for learning. There are also videos and such to rent from the library or buy. The AAW (American Association of Woodturners) has a lot of resources out there too... It is tough to start off from scratch, but given time and a bit of patience, it will all come together and become "easy". You will still have frustrating bits of wood to fight with, because that is the nature of dealing with a living thing. Good luck! Dave Mundt

I'll add my own voice to the others saying that it IS hard to start out with that you shouldn't give up. It will get better (and sometimes worse ) and you'll be REALLY hooked at that point. I taught myself how to turn and didn't see anyone else turn by video or in person for 2 years after I started. I finally found a woodturning club and it opened up my woodturning world for me. It made a HUGE difference just seeing and having them help you in a hands-on manner.

Keep practicing each tool and just plain playing with it until you feel comfortable. I still go through "exercises" about everytime I go to the lathe where I make my series of cuts with each tool. I guess it's somewhat like doing "scales" in music class. It's a good warmup and you can work on the basics each time.

Keep it up and don't worry about venting here. We all know.

P.S. I'm very interested in your experiences with the community college class. I'm starting a new thread on that topic (Woodturning Classes) and hope you relate those experiences for us.

- Andrew

We use eastern white pine for instruction, as well as firewood, and it's pretty friendly. I like the way it compresses, showing me if they're trying to lever a shaving versus following one. The compressed areas produced by the rear of the bevel are obvious!

I keep recommending the Shaker peg as the ideal spindle figure. Cove, bead, taper and shoulder all in one. No evidence to support it, but you have to wonder if the Shakers didn't break in their new turners on the ubiquitous peg. I know I like it.

Problem with sharpening lessons is that new turners can get their shorts in a bunch too quickly over something that isn't really as consequential as tool presentation or selection. I start 'em with a 1/2" spindle gouge - period.

Secondly, I don't think that pine is the BEST

I think maybe the instructor is following the suggestion in woodturning a foundation course, start on pine, and when you can get a good finish off the tools on it, everything else will be easier.(I don't like the idea but it could be the instructor does) The first thing I did was a 6 inch, incredibly ugly bowl out of maple, it was hard, and any catches made a large bang, the pine that i tried just seems to get a piece cut off with any catches. I've gotten a little better since, but I still end up with at least 1/2 of my projects as firewood, going for a trip to the other side of the shop.

Are you now?

Max

Why on earth not? A bowl gouge is very forgiving as a roughing tool, and in fact, before I graduated to using a skew for most of my (spindle) roughing, I used a bowl gouge almost exclusively for roughing (of both types) and still do use it on some big stuff. I very occasionally use a roughing gouge, but it mostly collects dust.

Whatever works for the task at hand.

-- Chuck *#:^) chaz3913(AT)yahoo(DOT)com Anti-spam sig: please remove "NO SPAM" from e-mail address to reply. <

September 11, 2001 - Never Forget

Main tool for learning to turn is a bow saw. Get yourself a stack of nice turning wood, still green is fine, and turn it into curlies. Pine is horrible to turn, something dense and fine-grained like an old hedge or an old apple tree is much nicer. Branches from tree felling are another source of "useless" timber.

You can even scrounge this stuff in the middle of a city - go to the dump and wait until a gardener turns up who's throwing away a truckload of pruning. Give them a hand unloading and scrounge some of the thicker stuff.

It is hard. Do more of it. Almost all of what you're going to make is firewood, so just stop worrying about it.

I don't know your teacher, but from what you said I don't think much of him. A week of lecture????. Where was he when you were haveing trouble roughting out a blank? I have taken several turning courses at the local collage. The first one after a couple of hours of lecture and demo we were roughing out blanks and it went on from there. Normally I would push turning classes but if you had problems I would do like what has been suggested and that is find a turning club in your area. Most of them have a mentoring list. Some one that would help you get started. To me turning is learning the feel of the tool and that can't be taught. The teachers aide saw me haveing problems turnining a bowl and went to help me. He said keep the tool and get started. He then grabbed the butt end of the bowl gouge while I held it. He gave it a slight twist and lifted the end. All of a sudden I could feel the cutting and big shaveings started comeing off the bowl. I will never forget that first feeling of everything working. I think of him every time I have trouble. Of course next week it took about an hour and a half to find the sweet spot but now I know what it feels like. As I get more experiance I get to the sweet spot quicker. I hope you experiace the same feeling. Your confidence will grow from there.

Bruce

That's a pretty cockeyed way of trying to teach someone without them being discouraged. That's like saying when someone is trying to learn to swim, "If you start off dog-paddling across the English Channel, by the time you get to the other side, you'll be so good that your wading pool will be a breeze."

Why start with something that is a pain in the rearend to turn when some nice, green hardwood limbs will teach you much more quickly, easily, and pleasantly what the tools will do, how they should be presented to the wood and how _not_ to hold them?

-- Chuck *#:^) chaz3913(AT)yahoo(DOT)com Anti-spam sig: please remove "NO SPAM" from e-mail address to reply. <

September 11, 2001 - Never Forget

Some instructors seem to prefer the military approach to training: if you can make it through the first day, you'll probably be okay. A lousy approach in this day and age, to be sure, of yuppie mentalities (instant gratification) and relative lack of free time.

When I did some turning in middle school wood shop, I wanted to start off with spindles of pine or something cheap. My instructor wisely put me on the lathe with some first-quality black walnut heartwood, which turned out beautifully. I still have the lamp forty-two years later.

Max

In my shop class, I think they used the "whatever" approach. I quite honestly don't recall a single word of instruction for the couple of mystery turned items I have, both of them out of red cedar. It was probably 35 years ago, at least, so my memory of it is a bit dim. I guess they didn't allow me to do anything that was too dangerous.

-- Chuck *#:^) chaz3913(AT)yahoo(DOT)com Anti-spam sig: please remove "NO SPAM" from e-mail address to reply. <

September 11, 2001 - Never Forget