My mother-in-law recently opened a small bead shop in Keizer, OR (it's next to Salem). She has been doing reasonably well but we still have a lot of questions. There are likely also some questions we don't yet know enough to ask.
I have followed this newsgroup for awhile now and believe the questions would be inappropriate here. In fact, I'm hopeful that this intrusion is okay.
Is there a newsgroup or discussion board primarily for retail shop owners?
Steve Lamb
I don't believe you are intruding and I don't think there is a retail shop board, either.
I'd say ask your questions here - there are many online store and B&M store owners on this list, plus we *are* your customer base.
Hi Steve, I've visited your Mom's bead shop. Nice little place! :) My husband used to work with a friend of yours(?) at Ford (I think) and that's how we found out about it. We're all bead makers & jewelry designers here, so maybe asking questions here might be a good thing for you to do. Good luck! Jocelyn
Hey - ask away! I'm a fellow Oriegonian, even though I just moved to Washington. I am down in the Portland area all the time. Maybe I will stop by your shop next time I am down there! I think store owners should feel free to ask questions here - especially if they are intelligent, well thought out questions.
We are a friendly bunch here Steve. I'm sure we'll all be happy to answer any of your questions. Please don't feel afraid to ask anything. We talk about EVERYTHING here. LOL
Thank you for the welcoming spirit.
I have to admit that when my mother-in-law announced that she was going to open her shop I thought she was nuts (I hope no one will pass this along to her, as I really try to be the respectful son-in-law). But I kept my thoughts to myself and started digging to learn more and try to help.
Frankly, finding this newsgroup, seeing the number of posts each day, and reading the passion that folks have for this has been very eye-opening.
I guess my first questions follow along this line. Who are the primary buyers of beads? Is this their hobby? Are they making jewelry for fun, for themselves, as gifts, or to sell? If they are making stuff to sell, what is the market like for fininshed pieces?
Again thank you for welcoming this line of discussion.
Steve
I can't really answer who the "primary buyers" of beads are, but I can answer for myself. Since starting to bead in earnest in October 2003, I have bought about $100 a month worth of beads, and prior to that I had probably bought about $100 worth of beads in my whole lifetime.
I just went into a new beadshop that opened within walking distance of my house, and I was disappointed because the beads weren't labeled very well. I would like beads to be labeled with the kind of material they are made of and their size in millimeters. Probably someone more experienced than me wouldn't need the size, but I think one would always want the material because many materials look alike superficially.
I make jewelry for my own pleasure, for gifts, and to sell, but at the moment I'm only selling occasionally to my friends and relatives, because I haven't done all the paperwork to set up a business and haven't set up a commerce web site and so forth.
The market - there are many different markets for finished pieces, depending on what you make and where you try to sell it. You can sell on the web, by word of mouth, at craft faires, at bead and gem shows, to retail jewelry stores, to wholesalers, to art galleries, etc., etc. You can also make money off your jewelry talents by teaching classes, selling kits, writing how-to books, and so on.
I just read Barbara Brabec's book "Creative Cash," which goes into a lot of detail about how to sell handcrafts.
I would say that without a doubt, most of your customers will be dabblers who know some but not much about beads. I would also say that more of your business will come from the more educated and particlar beaders. Your semi professional beaders and highly skilled amatuers. This will be especially true if your business stands alone instead of being in a (real, not strip) mall. I believe this is true even though most people who buy a whole lot of beads get beads on-line at lower prices.
When I dabbled, a $20 purchase was pretty common, with a few $40 purchases. Now, even with beads available on the internet, I do real good to get out for less than $100.
You will get more serious beaders as a "destination store"; and more traffic in a mall. If you are lucky enough to be a destination store, ask customers for in-put. Keep the high quality stuff available. Be sure to have adequate findings!!!!! Especially in SS and GF. One can get beads anywhere, but clasps are harder to come by in a hurry.
Are you in a metropolitan area or a semi rural area? Are there other bead stores around?
Especially if there are other sources nearby, specialize in one thing, then expand. Beaders will go to a place that always has a wide variety of Swarovski crystals. Beaders will always go someplace that has a wide range of Delica beads. I always seem to be looking for a place that carries a good variety of high quality size 8 beads. Specialize in pewter charms. Specialize in Czech pressed beads with lots of florals themed beads.
I hate going into a store that has a little of everything, but not enough to get what I want. It's kind of like shopping in someone's house, where all they have is what they like, and there's just a small chance you'll luck out and get a whole projects worth of beads.
I hate having only "onesies" available at premium prices. Have a case with collector beads (for sale) and finished items (also for sale). Have classes! and exhibit the work.
The market for finished beawork is awful. The work is very labour intensive, and most of us would rather gift our work than sell it cheap.
Tina
Tina,
You gave a good description of what I would expect.
Also, I love to purchase Bali silver but not at rape prices. I'll pay retail for them if I need them in a hurry, but I won't stand for 1000% of more mark up. Most serious beaders know how much they can get them online or at bulk prices.
I have to agree with Tina on that clasps are essential. I love looking at different clasps and if they aren't too terribly expensive I'll buy several.
Our bead store here has the best classes around and I love them for that. The classes aren't expensive at all and they have some of the best teachers available. However, their bead prices and Bali are at rape prices and I rarely shop there. I have a select few styles of beads that I purchase there regularly because I haven't found them anywhere else and they are really fillers for my lampwork. I seldom pay more than $10 any one time I go because of their high prices.
Remember that the internet offers beads at good prices -- they are competition for your business. ~~ Sooz
------- "Those in the cheaper seats clap. The rest of you rattle your jewelry." John Lennon (1940 - 1980) Royal Varieties Performance ~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links
vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from "Christina Peterson" :
]Have classes! and exhibit the work.
Bingo! stores that don't offer classes often fold.
----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)
I think Tina and Sooz made most of the good points. I would really emphasize a few of them:
Have LOTS of something. If you can't afford to have lots of lots of things, pick a specialty area (one sort of bead, one type of finding, whatever) as Tina was saying - and have LOTS OF THEM. There is nothing more enticing than being able to paw through a huge quantity of something. And, as was said before, there is nothing more annoying than not being able to get enough of a particular thing to actually do something with. I would have to say that this is even more important than pricing - I have seen in my town several rubberstamp stores die quick deaths - they had nice stuff, good classes, lovely owners - but hardly any stock. While the big scrapbook store in town, which sunk every last penny into stock, and charges a premium for it, continues to expand and expand and expand. Why? Because there is something just too compelling about being in a store with tons and tons of stuff to choose from. And it's all RIGHT THERE, and can be yours RIGHT NOW. (Which is your only defense against the internet in terms of product, by the way - you're never going to beat online sources on prices. But you can give your customers the joy of taking it home and making something that very day. :-)
Make sure your staff knows what they're talking about. And that they're friendly about it. Whether or not you have 'official' classes, make sure your customers know that they can come in with a question, a problem, or just to show something off- and that the people there are always glad to see them and share with them. This can even help (for a while) overcome lack of stock (as long as lack of stock doesn't become a chronic condition.) I check out stamp stores when I travel. One of my favorites is a teeny-tiny little place in Atlanta - crammed full, but because it's not very big, let's face it, it just doesn't have that much. BUT, when I went in, the owner greated me like a long-lost friend (never been in there before), offered to show me some techniques... before long, we were playing with different things, and I walked out with several hundred dollars worth of stuff. Contrasted to a huge store in Florida, well stocked, all the latest toys - but they couldn't be bothered to even talk to me while I was there, the clerk was on the phone complaining about customers who dared to ask for help, and generally treated me like they were doing me a huge favor by allowing me in the place. Somehow, I didn't feel nearly as interested in buying anything.. and will never set foot in there again.
Classes are great. Demos are great. Ask your customers if they would like to do some. Have an open-house day where you have a number of demos going on, a discount for the supplies to make what is being demoed. Ask customers if you can display some of their work made with your beads (making sure then to have a good supply of those beads on hand since people will want to make the same thing!) Have bead-night parties - stay open late one night a month and bring in food and learn something (or have them teach each other) - charge a fee, and give a discount on supplies bought that night. Offer a room for bead parties - very popular here for kids' birthdays, there's one bead store in town that does this. (And then have someone/several someone's on hand to give advice/help on choosing beads, laying things out, making them up, etc.)
Obviously everyone would like a good deal. Equally obviously, your mil would like to make a profit. There can be a balance. You can charge higher prices than online if you offer the service and immediacy of gratification to offset it. You can't charge IMMENSELY higher prices (eg, the rape prices discussed for Bali). People will just ignore those beads, and it may wash over their entire perception of you.
Beads (and stamps, and all crafts) are a luxury. You have to convince people that they are a NEED... draw them in, let them have fun, expand their knowledge, and they'll buy.
Kar>
Let me also add, you should be sure to have any conversion charts you can find for information you can't give off the top of your head. Inches/mm/seed bead sizes (etc). Comparisons of crystal -- glass, fire polish, leaded crystal, and Swarovski (but you need a contract to use their name). Comparison of gold plate, vermeil, gold filled or rolled gold, and karat gold. Know what various metals will to to people's skin. Comparisons of Bali made silver, Bali like hand made silver and cast bali like beads. label beads for content, know grade of stone. Cheat sheets are good!
I've seen Japanese pressed beads and crystals that Nicole has. The pressed glass is at least as good as czech, the crystal is almost as nice as Swarovski, but cheaper. Those beads would make a nice specialty.
We're happy here to share ideas, and can often give sites for things like charts.
Did Sooz mention bead notes for outstanding information?
Tina
Other people have made good points. One I haven't seen mentioned is: consider the wholesale market as well as the retail. You don't have to *advertise* that you do wholesale pricing, but if there's any way you can offer a discount to someone who brings in a resale form (and this info will spread by word of mouth!), you can boost your business quite a bit. I don't know what your MIL's markup is, but standard wholesale discount is 40% off retail.
I would really advise *not* stocking base-metal findings; that puts you in competition with places like Michael's and Hobby Lobby. The cheapest findings you carry should probably be gold- and silver-plated. That's inexpensive enough for people who don't want to pay for the real thing, without looking like it should be on a plastic necklace at Wal-Mart.
Celine
vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from snipped-for-privacy@mindCHEMISEspring.com (Lee S. Billings) :
]Other people have made good points. One I haven't seen mentioned is: consider ]the wholesale market as well as the retail. You don't have to *advertise* that ]you do wholesale pricing, but if there's any way you can offer a discount to ]someone who brings in a resale form (and this info will spread by word of ]mouth!), you can boost your business quite a bit. I don't know what your MIL's ]markup is, but standard wholesale discount is 40% off retail. ] ]I would really advise *not* stocking base-metal findings; that puts you in ]competition with places like Michael's and Hobby Lobby. The cheapest findings ]you carry should probably be gold- and silver-plated. That's inexpensive enough ]for people who don't want to pay for the real thing, without looking like it ]should be on a plastic necklace at Wal-Mart.
VERY good points!
----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)
On Fri, 5 Mar 2004 9:21:52 -0500, Steve Lamb wrote (in message ):
Women. You will get some men, but every place I see buyers of beads, I see mostly women. (for example, this newsgroup)
Yes, it often is their hobby. However, hobby buyers usually make small purchases of beads, just enough for their current project. People who are serious hobbyists (like me) or part-time sellers are going to be the bread and butter of your business.
I strongly suggest that your MIL offer a frequent purchaser discount program. Giving a discount to someone who purchases $50 or $100 worth of beads at a time will get them to return and along with the instant gratification, will make your MIL's bead store an attractive alternative to online bead stores. (If she can't afford to give a monetary discount, how about a free class after an X dollar purchase?) Your MIL cannot hope to beat the prices that many of us can get online, but that can be overcome by other factors.
Yes, yes, yes and maybe. I make jewelry for fun, for me and as gifts. I know of a lot of people who want sell jewelry, but selling finished jewelry is tough, tough, tough. Getting anything like a living hourly wage for finished jewelry is darned near impossible. That's not to say that some folks don't sell some items for a fair price, but to do that on a day to day basis, year in and year out, is something else altogether.
Terrible. The finished jewelry available in stores is largely made in China and other low wage/low cost countries. Those of us in the rest of the world cannot even begin to compete with these large scale operations. It's not just wages that make finished jewelry a difficult market, it's also the fact that mass market beaded jewelry is made with the lowest quality materials possible.
I use the very best materials I can find: sterling, 14K gold and occasionally, gold filled or vermeil (under limited conditions). I use the best semi precious gems I can find, and only high quality seed beads. Even my stringing materials are the best available. My cost for materials alone is usually higher than the price of "costume" jewelry in a store at the mall, and that's before I've added a cent for my labor.
I don't mind that - beading is not how I earn a living. But it's certainly something to keep in perspective before thinking about selling finished jewelry. In turn, a bead supplier needs to keep that in mind, especially when novices ask for advice about "going professional."
A brick and mortar bead store owner also needs to understand that their biggest competitors are internet sellers. I can always buy something cheaper online than in a store. The difference to me would be service - does the store offer classes? are the people friendly? (there are a lot of crabs out there), can I get in and out in a reasonable amount of time? (I hate places that make it difficult for me to give them my money), is the place handicapped accessible? (it seems that a relatively high percentage of us have disabilities).
I can say that a brick and mortar store that didn't have all these things wouldn't be a place I'd frequent. I want to be able to "chat about beads" in a class. Any place that made me feel like I was intruding on the staff's valuable time wouldn't get my business again. If I can't get around in a store, or if they make it hard for me to breathe (that damn incense that seems to be ubiquitous in bead stores), I can't give them my money.
I don't expect every bead store employee to know more than I do about beading, but I don't want someone to try and foist off junk onto me or try to pretend that they're an expert when they aren't. Saying "I don't know, but I can find out for you" is a perfectly acceptable answer. Selling me something that won't suit my needs just to get me to spend money and get out is a great way to keep me from returning.
Hope this helps, and thanks for bringing up such a great topic.
Kathy N-V
On Fri, 5 Mar 2004 15:10:16 -0500, starlia wrote (in message ):
Unique clasps or classes on making my own clasps would be a BIG draw in my book.
Giving your customer base a chance to show off finished products will engenser loyalty and help you find possible teachers. A monthly or quarterly contest with a theme would attract repeat business. Have people sign a release just in case something bad happens to the finished pieces, heaven forbid, or simply have a bulletin board of photos and let other buyers do the voting. Give a small prize or a gift certificate toward store products.
Don't just hire teachers with technical skill, hire for people skills. One can always "teach the teacher" how to do a particular stitch, but it's difficult to find people with the ability to handle a class full of people at all skill levels and with different personalities.
Kathy N-V
This is so, so, SO true. It's magnetic. It makes shoppers happy.
Right! If this is what happens at a bead store, I stop going there.
THE KISS OF DEATH. This is true of any store. I feel uncomfortable going into a store that has not-enough stock.....somehow, I feel like the owners need me there badly, and it makes me uneasy. I usually leave fast, and I don't go back.
An absolute thrill. I think that most women, who are genetically programmed as gatherers, need to root around in stuff. This satisfies a deep need in us, and is very satisfying.
Yes! I buy much of my beads online, but I spend an inordinate amount at my local bead store. Why? ~ It's nearby. ~ It has Right Now Stuff, for when I cannot wait. ~ The prices are good -- better than other local bead stores, although not as good as the internet. So I go there instead of the other local stores.
SO IMPORTANT! If a bead store has snotty sales staff, it will get a reputation
-- and many of us will refuse to shop there. And if the staff knows nothing, it will get a reputation for that, too -- not as bad as having rude staff, but almost.
Absolutely! Make the customers feel welcome! I am extremely shy, and scared of the staff in any store I enter. But I feel good when I go to the bead store....they're so warm and friendly. I even go there when I don't need any beads, but I'm feeling sad -- it always cheers me up, and I invariably buy some beads.
See?
My local bead store says they make most of their money because of their classes. People buy beads when they take classes -- beads they happen to see while they're attending the class, beads they need for the class itself, etc.
Classes and demos emphasize the they NEED BEADS. These things create excitement, and excitement sells merchandise.
Excellent!
EXCELLENT! Karin's ideas all rock!
~~ Sooz
------- "Those in the cheaper seats clap. The rest of you rattle your jewelry." John Lennon (1940 - 1980) Royal Varieties Performance ~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links
Oh, yeah! Check it out, and use it!
Bead Notes: Beading information A through Z
------- "Those in the cheaper seats clap. The rest of you rattle your jewelry." John Lennon (1940 - 1980) Royal Varieties Performance ~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links
This is terrific. If someone doesn't know the answer, I don't want a made-up answer....and I want them to care enough about me to find out for me, preferably right now.
~~ Sooz
------- "Those in the cheaper seats clap. The rest of you rattle your jewelry." John Lennon (1940 - 1980) Royal Varieties Performance ~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links
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