Copyright Infringement??

On Sat, 9 Oct 2004 14:15:12 -0400, DreamBeadr wrote (in message ):

How does that person walk around with croagies that big? I took a look at the two pieces, and there is no way that one isn't a direct copy of the other. I bet that the copier is claiming that old canard: "all you have to change is 10% and it's no longer copying."

BTW, that's not true in the least - here in the US, anyway.

I also think that someone hasn't realized that you don't want to mess with Karma. Stealing from another just invites others to steal from you. I'm quite sure that she will eventually feel the pain of someone wrongfully stealing her designs.

True. I don't buy kits or anything like that, I design all my own pieces. But still, that takes an awful lot of nerve.

Kathy N-V

knowledeable about what you are purchasing and from whom before you hand over your money.<

WOW, thanks for the links, Beki *and* the heads up! I own Charley's book, and the resemblance is striking. I dropped her a note.

Carol in SLC Some of my stuff:

Not to mention that ALL the patterns/kits on her website look vaguely familiar..especially the hummingbirds and tiger eyes...

creepo.

The Blessed Fiddy, Patroness Saint of the Disorganized LC in Sunny So Cal Personality Development Specialist (Full-Time Mom!)

She needs to contact a lawyer, who can advise her on the exact nature of any infringement.

Protecting your work is important, very important. A lawyer can advise her and if necessary take the step of starting with a letter demanding the removal of the publication. She should contact the publisher, depending on who holds the copyrights to the piece, and ask them to act on an infringement of one of their publications if they agree it's an infringement.

It's not cheap, but in many cases, it's not even going to court, most infringement cases involving craft patterns get settled when the law firm sends out the cease and desist letters.

As individuals, we can't do anything to legally help but we can give support to someone trying to protect intellectual rights. I've seen so much of this in needlework circles, it's epidemic and has successfully been stopped. The only person who can do that is the person who owns the rights to the item in question, no one else can do a thing about it legally.

A laywer is her best bet.

-Su

I am afraid that they are dissimilar enough that even a copyright court would find the second rendition "not a copy"

and the extreme difference in color inspired by - yes -- copy - no....

the new version has more detail in the flowers ---the leaves are two tone and wider... etc...

however -- the best defense to such a thing is, as you have suggested, for others to avoid buying the newer version if they feel the second person has treaded on Beadyboops' patterns.

I'm afraid she would have a difficult time pursuing legal action... of course -- the flip side is - that the second designer will have a hard time proving libel/slander too.

it is not libel/slander to express a personal opinion..... as in "I think her design strongly resembles mine...."

Cheryl DRAGON BEADS Flameworked beads and glass

Su's statements are correct....

I agree she needs to talk to a lawyer.... to see if she can act-- but again... it will be very difficult for her to prove ....

The best thing for her is that lots of us know her designs - and, we can avoid the other copier.... who does not deserve our business!

Cheryl DRAGON BEADS Flameworked beads and glass

vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from snipped-for-privacy@aol.combeads (Cheryl) :

]I am afraid that they are dissimilar enough that even a copyright court would ]find the second rendition "not a copy" ] ]and the extreme difference in color ]inspired by - yes -- copy - no....

that was what i thought, too.

Really? I thought it was an obvious copy. The cutouts, the little buds - way too similar to be just chance. Only the colors are different, IMO.

Cheri (Bubbee to Emily and Nathan)

vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from snipped-for-privacy@aol.comstars (Cheri2Star) :

]Really? I thought it was an obvious copy. The cutouts, the little buds - way ]too similar to be just chance. Only the colors are different, IMO.

too similar to be chance, yes. that's why i agreed with Cheryl's "inspired by - yes. copy - no". there are obvious differences that are not just color.

Boy, I thought so too. It's SUCH a coinkydink how the little buds are aligned in the same places, and ...well...

I'd give it to her.

The Blessed Fiddy, Patroness Saint of the Disorganized LC in Sunny So Cal Personality Development Specialist (Full-Time Mom!)

The differences are SO slight...and I think many of the differences come in the change of stitch! I notice that the buds, leaves, swirls and blossoms are all identially placed...

hmmmmmmmmm

The Blessed Fiddy, Patroness Saint of the Disorganized LC in Sunny So Cal Personality Development Specialist (Full-Time Mom!)

It looks like a pretty straightforward case to me... despite changing the stitch, the pattern is identical. Your friend should contact her publisher, who will probably have their lawyers send a nice letter telling her to cease and desist. If Charley is self-published, she needs to talk to a lawyer who can advise her... having a lawyer send a letter is usually pretty effective and inexpensive.

Regardless of this woman's threats of slander and libel (why both? Does she not know the difference?) she's dishonest and is using intimidation tactics to try to back Charley off from protecting her work.

-Kalera

DreamBeadr wrote:

I *seriously* doubt that she has any original designs. I would bet money that every one of her designs is ripped off from someone else.

-Kalera

Kathy N-V wrote:

-snip-

-snip-

go look at her other patterns!!! I *swear* I've seen most of them somewhere else before...

The Blessed Fiddy, Patroness Saint of the Disorganized LC in Sunny So Cal Personality Development Specialist (Full-Time Mom!)

Since hers was published several years ago, that gives her some teeth.

-Kalera

Cheryl wrote:

Good question, Kathy. I think it might be a case of the person needing to convince her ownself she did nothing wrong, just in order to live with herself. ???

Beki

Well, apparently (altho, I have no proof, it is mere speculation, and after this incident, I don't trust this person as far as I can throw them) the hummingbirds are hers. She published instructions for them in B&B a couple of years back.

I haven't had the time to look at her other items closer, but I agree, some of those tigers ring a bell....

Beki

You are very welcome, Carol. Hopefully we can all watch each others back this way until everyone in our community learns better.

Beki

There was no libel or slander. We can say what we like, long as we do not publish it or incite panic in a crowd (i.e....yelling FIRE in a movie theater). Unfortunately if any of those stitches are different and she says she was "inspired by" then there most likely isn't copyright infringement.

Imp not a lawyer, but my BIL is and he explained to me when a friend and myself came up with a nearly identical bracelet within 2 weeks of each other. We had not seen it anywhere else...but we had very much the same idea! We figured that somewhere we saw something that made us think up this pattern. This was a friendly situation and my BIL was just simply telling us what could have come of it.

Is the copy cat a low down dirty rat...sure.....but you cant sue folks for that!

Janet R

"DreamBeadr" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@mb-m04.aol.com... | Charlene Hughes, aka BeadyBoop stepped into her local beadstore recently and | discovered that there is a beader who is offering kits to stores up and down | the west coast. One of the kits bears an amazing resemblance to a Rose pattern | that Charley created in 1999. The designer mentioned to the LBS that she was | "inspired" by Charley's pattern. Now she denies ever having seen Charley's | pattern. Her words were that she doesn't own any beading books, so therefor | how could she have seen it. ??? | | I have been in this business a pretty long time. I have seen similarities come | and go. I have seen designs that are in fact created from inspiration. I have | also seen direct copies. | | Because this person has threatened a lawsuit against Charley for slander and | libel, (regardless of whether the threat is real or not) Charley must be very | careful now how she goes about protecting her rights. | | However, it is perfectly within her rights to post an image of the two pieces | of beadwork, and to request that you email her your comments about how you see | them. Here is a link to this page:

| | In addition, I can also give you links to the two websites that host these | images: | Charley's original image from her first pattern book: | | | And the other persons image from their website where they are offering a | pattern & kits for sale: | | | This type of thing is very hurtful to all of us. We cannot sit back and allow | people to take advantage of others. It costs a lot of money to defend your | rights in this country, and it really sucks that the person who is being taken | advantage of would be the same person who would also need to fork out the money | to protect themselves. | | It is also very hurtful to me that this person would continue to deny their | responsibility in this issue, and that the pattern remains for sale. It is not | okay to do this to another member of the beading community. And I for one will | never purchase from or support this person in any way. | | If you own a beadstore and are offered kits to resell, please make yourself | knowledeable about what you are purchasing and from whom before you hand over | your money. | | | Beki |