Copyright Infringement??

Wow, where did you get THAT definition? And, FWIW and BTW and all that, posting something on the Internet is basically publication. But anyway...

Unfortunately if any of those stitches are different

Ummmm, REALLY? Interesting that even with a stitch change, you overlay the two images, and they are nearly the EXACT same proportions. And P.S. a statement made to the LBS owner that it was inspired by Charley, now she's selling it, along with the kits, most likely means there IS copyright infringement -- it's called a derivative work. Run that past your BIL... you and your friends' bracelet situation is a completely different situation. You didn't copy each other.

The odds of EXACT flower bud placement, EXACT spiral placement, and nearly EXACT proportions on a project that complex is pretty slim. And the fact that she acknowledged having seen Boop's would pretty much sink her (in a perfect copyright world anyway...)

I know that Boop's rosebuds are different than what anybody else out there is doing -- when charting roses in beads, it's really challenging to get that sense of petals being nested and also in a spiral. I remember having a conversation with Boop when she solved that problem by simplifying the spiral, which is less realistic but more convincing, if that makes sense. A lot of her rose designs are that way, and they're unique from what anybody else I've seen has done. Til now that is.

Mary T. 8-)

Aunt Molly's Bead Street

but when it comes to something like a book, not only do you have to copyright the text of the book, you also have to copyright every design individually>

ummm -- not sure that you are stating that correctly - since you can "copyright" any collection of work as an entire collection - and each part of it is then protected.

If you copyright a book of patterns - the entire book, and all of its contents are copyrighted.

if you intend to sell each pattern individually - you might have to copyright them individually......

Cheryl DRAGON BEADS Flameworked beads and glass

vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from snipped-for-privacy@aol.combeads (Cheryl) :

]if you intend to sell each pattern individually - you might have to copyright ]them individually......

that's probably what the person i was talking to was referring to.

I could be wrong, but I believe that she could copyright the whole book, which would include all of the designs in that book at the same time.

vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from "Karleen/Vibrant Jewels" :

]I could be wrong, but I believe that she could copyright the whole book, ]which would include all of the designs in that book at the same time.

it depends. i've gotten two different versions from multiple sources.

photographs are automatically copyrighted to the person who took the picture unless they're done 'for hire'.

is the pattern and the directions on how to do it in the book? or just the picture. are the directions on how to do it included in the book, or not?

there are a LOT of variables - especially with regard to artwork, patterns, and instructions!

when i talked to two different attorneys about copyright/trademark/patenting, it was a nightmare - and incredibly expensive to do it right - which had to be done PRIOR to sales in order to recoup attorney's fees later.

I have been told by authors at a writer's conference that a cheap way around all this is to mail yourself a copy of the book - LEAVING THE ENVELOPE SEALED until you go to court - which will preserve the postmark and possibly your rights to the work if you believe someone is copying it (to establish the date you first created it).

One thing I had to come to grips with when I began publishing my writing on the internet - was - whether I wanted to preserve the possibility that someday I might make money on it - or if I'd rather make it available to help someone or inspire them and take the risk that someone, somewhere might copy something without giving me credit. I decided to publish it anyway. I have a legal disclaimer describing my rights... but whether someone is honest enough to follow my requests is something I decided was out of my control. This is at

As far as beadwork goes, my original stuff is impossible for ME to copy, much less anyone else, as I work very freeform. LOL

Being published in Bead and Button doesn't make her hummingbirds NOT derivative>

that's not what she was saying - she was saying she realized that is where SHE had seen them - by Dragon... and it seemed familiar to her when she saw Dragon's website...

Dragon invented those hummingbirds YEARS AGO -- and did not publish them in the magazine until much later... she had them available for direct sale from herself - as patterns or kits long before they were published in the magazine...

Cheryl DRAGON BEADS Flameworked beads and glass

vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from "Karleen/Vibrant Jewels" :

]my original stuff is impossible for ME to copy

honestly, that's the way about most of mine!

i have a hard time getting two earrings to match, sometimes. obviously, mileages vary here, tho.

Is it what she was saying? ;-) Glad you're clear... ;-)

Yes, I saw them on the web long ago too. Was glad to see them in the mag and glad they have such appeal. I was only saying...oh nevermind, LOL.

Mary T. 8-)

Aunt Molly's Bead Street

- which had to be done PRIOR to sales in order to recoup attorney's fees later...

no -not technically

it has to be done BEFORE any other company tried to infringe - i.e. you publish pattern A.... with a copyright notice-- it is copyrighted in the USA... technically.... even though you have not filed a registration... You can file the registration later... not a problem .. EXCEPT if someone infringes in the period before you file -- at which point - you can still file the registration

but - if you sue -- you can't recoup the attorney and court costs if you win.

if you file a registration BEFORE someone infringes - then you can sue them, and if you win - you get your court and attorney's fees paid too...

complex - yes -- but basically a simple thing.

Cheryl DRAGON BEADS Flameworked beads and glass

I have been told by authors at a writer's conference that a cheap way around all this is to mail yourself a copy of the book - LEAVING THE ENVELOPE>

that is no longer necessary since the Copyright Act was changed... items are copyrighted from the moment of creation.

proving WHEN you copyrighted it affects only the "court and attorney's costs" thing - and the new rule is that you must register before the infringement occurs in order to recover.... the envelope thing no longer has any real meaning....

Cheryl DRAGON BEADS Flameworked beads and glass

Thanks Cheryl, I wondered how that would work out in the real world, it's great to have an attorney in the group! :)

vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from snipped-for-privacy@aol.combeads (Cheryl) :

]if you file a registration BEFORE someone infringes - then you can sue them, ]and if you win - you get your court and attorney's fees paid too... ] ]complex - yes -- but basically a simple thing.

yes - that was what i was trying to say. there are sometimes short-circuits between the brain and the fingers these days, but i was listening when you explained that bit to me!

Statements like this is why it was REMOVED from the other forum....

Slander is slander

slan·der n.

This is between the 2 designers. Whether she "stole" something is actually for a court to define if it ever goes that far. Last time I checked - in this country - you are innocent until PROVEN guilty.

That is what I meant by Lynch Mob Mentality.

Pamy Pamela Welborn Beading Design Creation and Instruction Buy My Kits -

-Kalera

Not in civil court. Which is where slander cases go. ~~ Sooz To live a creative life, we must lose our fear of being wrong. ~~Joseph Chilton Pearce

Actually, it was removed from the About.com forum because the editor was not comfortable with the subject title, which contained the word thief. If I remember correctly, I believe the actual subject was titled "Another pattern thief".

The word thief, and then the contents of that message could be construed as slanderous. Any prior replies to that message that do not contain any direct comments towards this person are not considered slanderous.

This comment, "I *seriously* doubt that she has any original designs. " Is not slanderous. It is opinion. She is stating that she "doubts". She did not say, "XXX person has no original designs". That would be slander.

This comment, " I would bet money that every one of her designs is ripped off from someone else." Again, not slanderous. Had she said, "Every one of XXX's designs are ripped off from someone else". That would be slander.

Just because someone has an opinion that defers from someone else's does not automatically make it slanderous. And just because someone feels this is not a copy, doesn't mean it's not. =o/

BTW, here are copies of some of the actual email replies that Charley has received so far, including those who do not see it as a copy:

Beki

It's important to note. You can get a *judgment* that your court and attorney costs be paid. That is not necessarily the same thing as getting money.

Tina

Sooz >Not in civil court. Which is where slander cases go.

The suit I was referring to was the copyright infringement

Pamy Pamela Welborn Beading Design Creation and Instruction Buy My Kits -