Lampworkers

vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from Kalera Stratton :

]I know a art lampworker in Israel...

but i haven't bought any of those. and probably wouldn't - - if only because of the import problems. unless i found a LBS here that carried them.

----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)

vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from Kalera Stratton :

]I by no means expect you to include this long-winded explanation in your ]overview, I just thought I would put it out there, as information that ]seems to be not widely circulated even in lampworking circles!

can i?

----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)

vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from snipped-for-privacy@aol.compuppies (Dr. Sooz) :

]That counts out Australia, and people like Arondelle (Switzerland).

actually, my list includes Australia and Canada. i haven't purchased any of Arondelle's yet.

----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)

Bwahahahaaaaaaaaa! Yes, you are.

There may not be any way to tell ... until it breaks. But the same is true for artisan lampwork. The artist may do everything in his or her power to insure that the bead is sound before they release it to the world. But it may still bust -in spite of all the care they took-.

And an Indian or Chinese bead may luck-out and survive in spite of the low-tech conditions under which it was made. For me, one of the big stoppers when it comes to buying low-tech lampwork is the powdery haze of bead release that dulls them to the point of being a whole lot less than attractive.

I've bought Indian lampwork I wouldn't be ashamed to use from Bead Monkey in the Twin Cities, and when I asked why their Indian lampwork looked so much better than other people's Indian lampwork, they told me they ran their shipments through a couple of cycles in an automatic dishwasher, and did some serious culling before putting the survivors out on display.

Deirdre

How about linking it to the level of technology involved instead of making it regional.

A Chinese lampworker who used the same setup as a Western lampworker, and who had learned the same skills, and had access to equally decent materials could certainly turn out lampwork of comparable quality. It would be good -- IMO -- to link quality to *skills, materials and technique* rather than nationality. Less ethno-centric, dontcha think?

Deirdre

I guess I make fewer fine distinctions between artist and artisan, though I know there may be grounds for distinction. And I wonder if some people, like the Czech lampworkers, wouldn't -be- closer to the definition of artists, if the cultural emphasis on traditional forms and methods were lifted a bit.

They clearly have the skills, but not their environment's encouragement toward individual expression, IMO. In a more open atmosphere, some might experiment more, perhaps be inspiringly innovative. But, we can't really know that unless it actually happens. And maybe those artisans who do aspire to artist-like individual expression find they have to emigrate to explore that path...

Deirdre

I think Kalera meant the bead I had which was a domestically made art lampwork bead from an identified source, not the mass produced stuff.

I suspect that the Indian and Chinese lampworkers know their stuff breaks, but they aren't in a position to have a whole lot of what you might call 'creative control'. I suspect they do the best they can within the conditions they're stuck with...

Deirdre

vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from Deirdre S. :

]I've bought Indian lampwork I wouldn't be ashamed to use from Bead ]Monkey in the Twin Cities, and when I asked why their Indian lampwork ]looked so much better than other people's Indian lampwork, they told ]me they ran their shipments through a couple of cycles in an automatic ]dishwasher, and did some serious culling before putting the survivors ]out on display.

now THAT would be a good thing to know beforehand!

----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)

vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from Deirdre S. :

]link quality to *skills, materials and ]technique* rather than nationality. Less ethno-centric, dontcha think?

okay, that's a possibility. but how am i going to know? how would you categorize it?

----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)

vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from "Christina Peterson" :

]The differentiation I've been taught is that an artist practices creative ]self expression within a craft, whereas an artisan is a practitioner of "the ]art of" or of a craft. Self expression vs technical skills.

that's the way I have understood it.

----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)

vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from Deirdre S. :

]I think Kalera meant the bead I had which was a domestically made art ]lampwork bead from an identified source, not the mass produced stuff.

okay, that makes more sense!

]I suspect that the Indian and Chinese lampworkers know their stuff ]breaks, but they aren't in a position to have a whole lot of what you ]might call 'creative control'. I suspect they do the best they can ]within the conditions they're stuck with...

agreed!

----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)

OK, using that definition I can see calling the Czech lampworkers who follow prescribed methods and traditions "artisans", and people like the RCB lampworkers who come up with designs and techniques of their own "artists".

Deirdre

I am not sure how to name such a category... And I don't think you

-can- know, unless you know the background of particular beads and their makers. And you can only know that if your suppliers provide the information, or you buy directly from the artist ... and they share that info with you directly.

It is like the many discussions about 'real' vs. 'unreal' Bali silver. A reliable, impeccably honest seller who verifies *their* sources may be the buyer's only insurance against getting cut-rate imitations. Especially under conditions (like online buys) where they can't do close inspection for themselves until the merchandise arrives...

Deirdre

I meant I dont't think you can know the good stuff without some kind of credentials, or close examination.... not that you couldn't know how to categorize things.

Sorry. Bad sentence construction.

Deirdre

vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from Deirdre S. :

]I am not sure how to name such a category... And I don't think you ]-can- know, unless you know the background of particular beads and ]their makers. And you can only know that if your suppliers provide the ]information, or you buy directly from the artist ... and they share ]that info with you directly.

i think this is part of what i'm trying to get across on the pages, because *in general* they refer to artists i buy from personally [from within this group] or the suppliers i buy from who actually visit those countries they are buying from. now, of course, Tink, Kandice, Nicole, and the others here could very well be lying to me, and it would take a while for me to find that out . . .

]It is like the many discussions about 'real' vs. 'unreal' Bali silver. ]A reliable, impeccably honest seller who verifies *their* sources may ]be the buyer's only insurance against getting cut-rate imitations. ]Especially under conditions (like online buys) where they can't do ]close inspection for themselves until the merchandise arrives...

another reason i only purchase "Bali" silver from Nicole and Marilee. of course, they to could be lying to me, and it would take me a while to find that out. when it comes right down to it, i have only their word. and if i have silver i'm not sure of, i simply mark it "sterling silver" and not Bali.

i'm really trying to be as complete and honest with my customers as i can . . . which was one reason for putting up that page of information.

----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)

vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from Deirdre S. :

]I meant I dont't think you can know the good stuff without some kind ]of credentials, or close examination.... not that you couldn't know ]how to categorize things. ] ]Sorry. Bad sentence construction.

----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)

It sounds like the distinction would be artists' beads and product beads. Though of course both catagories include good stuff and substandard stuff. Another distinction would be puchases from the makers and purchases for a lot (some mass or number) of handmade beads from distributors. That would include Indian beads and Venetian hand blown beads.

Tina

Sounds like it gets really hard to find a single category that can be equated with 'good stuff' or 'not so good stuff', doesn't it?

There is a range of quality in each of the proposed categories. And it isn't easy to find good stuff based -only- on its category.

Does that sound like a fair statement?

Deirdre