Re: help please.

I can totally relate about the house. When I clean and everything is clutter-free, my son will come in and say, "wow! Who's coming?" Patti

And another form of self-regulation has the potential to preserve a lot of your energy, instead of using it up on this emotional 'roller-coastering'.

Make a study of what kinds of things surround your best times and your worst times, and see if you can't actively *build* the former, and

-avoid- the latter, bit by bit, based on your observations about what goes with each kind of experience.

Deirdre

How about passing things on, rather than throwing out? Can you part with things for the sake of others getting use out of them?

Deirdre

I realized I didn't have the whole context when I read another message about your new supervisor's 'rock and hard place' position.

It is very difficult to inherit a hot potato others have thrown your way. Finding some oven mitts strikes me as a better answer than tossing it down the hierarchy, though.

I don't know if the current situation -can- be made any more humane for those stuck in it. But it would be nice to see those in positions of power and responsibility try to *handle* the hot potato rather than drop it in someone else's lap.

Your anger at upper management is something I share, cuz I've seen this happen a lot, in lots of contexts.

Deirdre

Strong evidence, IMO.

And life never gets 'perfect'. For anyone, no matter how great their skills, or how good their strategies.

Bad days are part of everyone's existence. The best anyone does is to develop ways to survive the things we can't do anything about, and to cultivate the resources we need to deal with those we can actually change, either a little or a lot.

Deirdre

vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (Beadseeker) :

]I can totally relate about the house. When I clean and everything is ]clutter-free, my son will come in and say, "wow! Who's coming?"

**snort** my kids had to have dreaded knowing someone was coming for dinner. they knew what had to happen first. sometimes, it was just a good way to get them to help get the cleaning done.

----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)

Bill of Rights - Void where prohibited by Law.Regime Change in 2004 - The life you save may be your own.

Those mags from your grandma, can you scan the stuff that you are particularly interested in, save to a CD, then pass them on to someone else? I've been doing a whole lot of that lately, along with shredding paper clutter, and oh boy is it freeing!!!!! I still have the info I want, but it's on a CD, instead of in huge, overwhelming piles all over the house.

How about keeping a representative few, scanning the pages in others that you think you might actually use, and giving the rest to 'official preservers of artifacts of daily life', like a historical societies, collectors' organizations, etc.

So you know they won't end up in a landfill.

If you have a scanner, scan them to CD. They'll take up a whole lot less space, and won't deteriorate with time.

Deirdre

GMTA, Deirdre!

Yeah, I saw that :-).

I've just had to pare down drastically recently myself, so I had to find things that worked to make me feel like I still had the 'important stuff', but was able to afford to ship it and fit it into one modest size room instead of six (all filled with shelves).

I kept some family photos, but scanned a lot, too, and offered the originals to my sister, who is better equipped to keep them at this point in time.

Deirdre

Good idea.

Maybe it would help me to look at hte "best days" list on a "worst day" too... just to remind myself how far I've come, since not having come far enough is actually one of the things that tears me (further) down when things seem bad, until I get to an "all black" place, or whatever...

marisa2

"Deirdre S." wrote:

vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from Deirdre S. :

]How about keeping a representative few, scanning the pages in others ]that you think you might actually use, and giving the rest to ]'official preservers of artifacts of daily life', like a historical ]societies, collectors' organizations, etc. ] ]So you know they won't end up in a landfill. ] ]If you have a scanner, scan them to CD. They'll take up a whole lot ]less space, and won't deteriorate with time.

now THAT might make me feel better. as soon as i find the time to DO it. i'll start giving that one serious thought.

----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)

Bill of Rights - Void where prohibited by Law.Regime Change in 2004 - The life you save may be your own.

I don't think I have OCD.

One of the spiralling-thought patterns I get though is when I convince myself that NOTHING is in my control (job, school, health of my grandparents, my husband's school and job (or lack thereof), my mental/emotional state, my husband's mental/emotional state, my weight, my sleep patterns (or lack thereof), my migranes, the state of our appartment, the way my dad thinks of me, what people at work think of me, what random people on the street think of me, what my brother is doing in his life, what my cousin is doing in her life, what my aunt and grandparents think of what my cousin is doing even though they really don't understand the system of higher education, etc etc etc.) Of course what I need to do is realize that I DO have control over some of these, partial control over others, don't need control of many of the rest. But that is easier to tell someone else to do, then to do myself.

It was amazing in the group therapy to note how each person felt they had an insurmountable group of delmas and problems, while everyone else had a really easy time telling eachother "just don't DO that if you don't want to", "take care of YOURSELF first or you won't be ABLE to help them with that", or "break things up into pieces, do this and this and this and then it will be easy.".

It took a long time to dawn on me that when other people said these thigns to me, it wasn't because they just didn't know ALL the facts pertaining to my delemas... it was because many of mine really ARE as simple as that, I just can't see it, just as they can't see it when I tell them the same thing.

I totally agree about that.

It also wasn't a good place to learn about specific techniques for dealing with your specific neurological/psychaitric problem. It was a decent place to get support and advice on "every-day" problems (how to deal with a specific family situation, how to deal with a stressful event coming up, etc).

I addressed this in a sepearte posting.

In this particular case I don't think I explained the situation with my medicine enough. Lots of people's reactions are that I should be on the medicine, but my psychaitrist and I did a lot of thinking about this and overall I still feel it is definately the right choice for me at this particular time.

I certainly learned this at the program. Some of hte people had done unbelievable things while on a manic high, and several had ended up really ruining their lives. There were also a LOT of people who were "dual-diagnosed" with manic-depression and substance abuse.

I understand that. I certainly saw a lot of examples of people being on WRONG medications, and people getting onto RIGHT medications while I was there.

Medicine is not an exact science and the administration of psychaitric medicine is very far from any kind of science IMO after all of these obseverations of a largish, changing group of people over a 2 month period. There is a huge ammount of trial and error involved, and very few people even when on the "right" combination are completely side-effect free. There are pros and cons to all of it.

I understand (well, intellectually I sort of understand. Emotionally is a different thing).

It was easier to try to deal with my own thinking in some instances then others.

They are definately of the same sort.

I have done all of the above mentioned things in the past, although some of the mental devices I used to get through them may not've been the best and may've helped lead me down to the crash. But the fact that I did them before is somethng I am holding on to; I am 26 so I can't be getting senile...which means that if I did these things before, I should be able to again.

I realize that now. That is what I meant by "One thing that came out early in my therapy and that I can see really clearly in myself now: I used ...."

I am hoping to find a third option. I think I partially have, but I am impatient with it.... Medication can't be a 100% fix either.

The problem was that the medications were causing the cloudiness, much worse then anything I had ever had without medications. For a long time I didn't realize it was the medications and just thought I was going completely insane. It was extreemly frightening for me.

One thing I was jealous of (if that is the right word) was that people with substance abuse ahd the 12 steps. I read some of the "blue book" and other literature when I was there. The basic concept as I see it were a bunch of stories of people who HAD succeeded: existance proofs that if you follow a specific structure, you could get better. And it was amazing to me, an outsider for that particular problem, to watch the people with substance abuse going through the program follow the same patterns as they worked through the first few steps (usually they left the partial-hospital program after some weeks so they didn't get that far, but the patterns were very similar). It didn't seem to matter how smart they were, what walk of life they were in... there were differences in how their feelings came out, or what problems they had with the steps, but they all seemed to really be going through the same phases. I really saw what denial looked like, and disbelief in a power higher then one's self, etc.

One of the counsellors who worked there felt htat the 12 steps were applicable to all problems. I'm not sure.

I've been trying to raise my protein intake. Supposedly it will give me more energy and help me lower my intake of cabohydrates and therefore help me loose weight too.

I'm not sure. The doctor told me he ordered "all the tests, not just that one test that doesn't show everything".

Ah.

Good idea.

Hard to implement.

:) lots of comments by the group so far that I can empathise with!

That would be nice.

When does that happen?

:)

marisa2

On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 16:43:03 -0400, Marisa E Exter wrote (in message ):

Good. The people were finally getting appropriate treatment and are feeling some relief from their symptoms.

I completely understand why you're drawing that conclusion from your experiences. However, I think you're missing some information. The group with which you were working was not a representative sample of all the people taking psychotropic medications. Since the vast majority of anti-depressants and anti-anxiety medications are prescribed by primary care physicians, it can be deduced that most people get the results they need without additional treatment.

It would only be people who need additional treatment, have side effects or have more than run-of-the-mill situational depression who would require further attention. If you are basing your opinion on the experiences of people you met in group therapy, naturally you would see people with more than the usual need for treatment.

I've been on anti-depressants since shortly after the birth of DD. I had a nightmarish case of post-partum depression, compounded by the fact that I am steroid dependent (which causes all kinds of scary mental side effects in and of itself. But better these side effects than my other choice - death). Yet, I haven't seen a mental health professional since my post partum depression was resolved. No one seeing me would think I am depressed, nor would they think I take psychotropic medication. I have no discernable side effects.

I once had a research assignment for a pharmaceutical company, and my experience was not in the least uncommon. Many, many people take such medicines, with no undesirable side effects. They are treated through their primary care network, and no one ever knows they have ever suffered from depression, anxiety or other medical condition. (That's why pharmaceutical companies spend so much time and money marketing to primary care physicians compared to mental health professionals)

Marisa, I know you are dead set against medication, and that is your right. I simply wanted to let you know that the information you are using to base your decision upon is incomplete. You may be one of the very rare people for whom any medication at any dose is a problem. I certainly hope that isn't the case. But please don't automatically assume that medication = bad side effects, based on information that is incorrect and always changing.

Medication is merely a tool, much like a pair of pliers for wirework. If you saw a bunch of people using pliers to drive nails into the wall, you might think that pliers are useless. What I'm saying is that the meds that have given you problems are merely the wrong tools to do the job.

I care about you, and don't want to get into an argument over the pros and cons of anti-depressants. I did want you to know that there are an awful lot of people you encounter every day being kept alive and functional by these medications, and you'd never even guess that was the case.

Feel better, hon.

Kathy N-V

I also have been giving photos and mementos to younger family members. Eg, if I have several baby picturess of one of my sisters or brothers I'll give them to their children. Those are much more valuable to them than to me.

Tina

You know, most of the things you mention are not the business of someone who isn't co-dependent. Many of the things you mention are about how you are reflected in someone else's picture of you, not about who and how you are to yourself.

This also reminds me of how much I used to be jealous of my "perfect" sister. The really rich one. It never occurred to me that she admired me and had some jealousy of her own toward me. We're close friends now.

...................

.....................

This is why I too opt for using "less than theraputic doses". I understand about and share your reluctance about meds.

Learning that is a long hard road. Identifying it is a huge start!

enough mental energy ......

again................

Mental habits have an element of trial and error too, after all.

HELL NO it's not!

Prozac did that to me. Horrifying!

Yeah, I thought alcoholism was bad. Then I had the Co-dependence to deal with. A similarity is that like alcoholism, Co-dependence is addiction to a set of behaviours. (Ask the friends of any "dry drunk".)

Had to think for a while about this answer. All I can come up with are: "When you least expect it", and "when you're not looking". But you are in the process now!

Tina

This is true of so many illnesses. The people who agonize over a condition, let's say psoriasis, or the few for whom standard solutions do not work.

Tina

anti-depressants

For the longest time, I have lived with clutter. Not the kind that you hear of when someone is found dead in the home, surrounded by years' worth of stacked newspapers, magazines, etc. Something less severe ;^).

I'm wondering if there is a certain personality-type or if it's emotional turmoil that causes people to "gather" things and have them about in such a way that they panic when visitors come a'calling. I can't figure out why "I am the way I am," although I suspect ADD (I *do* get distracted easily). I know it's possible to "gather" things and keep them stored out-of-sight...so why do some of us keep them within viewing range? Is it a reassurance factor? (I *know* I have it because I can see it.)

At the other end of the spectrum, how about the "neatniks"/minimalists? When I hear of someone who likes things "just so," a term that never ceases to amuse me, I wonder if they had a childhood where they were admonished for every "infraction" of not having all of their toys neatly put away immediately after use. (Perhaps they're hoping to be featured on the cover of "House Beautiful?")

What makes us behave either way? Is there a happy medium?

OK, how many of you collect things that you might "need" someday, or know without a doubt that you'll "need" the item as soon as you get rid of it? ::Turtlelover waves her hand high in the air!::

How many of you appreciate the echoes in a room with as little in it as possible -- and cringe when the sofa pillows are not straight?

CONFESS!

Best, Turtlelover