Re: OT Lest anyone see me as harsh

I always just blunder into a newsgroup or a party. So I try to do so carefully.

Tina

vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from "Christina Peterson" :

]I always just blunder into a newsgroup or a party. So I try to do so ]carefully.

so do i. [hanging head] i never could keep my mouth shut. **sigh**

just ask Celine.

----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)

's not what you take, when you leave this world behind you;it's what you leave behind you when you go. -- Randy Travis

Sooz,

You are one of the kindest folks on RCB and you have given good, constructive advice when asked. I haven't been able to read a lot of RCB lately, but I have to agree with your statement.

Starlia

Ya, but youre prettier and a lot more believable. Diana

On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:24:14 -0400, Diana Curtis wrote (in message ):

Moi? You may be right, I don't exactly let people push me around, especially where the kids are concerned.

Kathy N-V

The gist of the article is 'be nice to people who can help you later, drop everybody else'. He gives a whole long list of problems of which you should avoid people who have them, lest you become tainted. He says you can't possibly help any of them overcome those problems and become better people who can help you later so you should just write them off. I'm not making this up.

When I read the reponses that you and others made, I felt that the advice on materials and research was appropriate, succinct and useful for her stage of development. The reaction you got, I felt, was rather unfair. I always allow for a margin of error in interpretation when I read a post given the absence of inflection and body language.

Yes, you can simply choose not to answer, Sooz. However, I see that you choose to do so as a generous thing and not the contrary. I didn't, I'm too tired/busy/distracted these days. Sharing your thoughts and opening yourself up to criticism is courageous.

Personally, I appreciate the direct approach. Sooz, you've always been straight with me and I like that. I would hope that you will always.

And not just you. I made some typos and other blunders in my webpage. I am deeply grateful to those who pointed them out for me. That's why I asked for your opinions. I may not ask many questions, but I do pay attention, I consider that I have a long, long way to go to build up an internet client base. Watching, learning asking the odd question, putting into practice what I've learned, refining all the time; I'll get there in a year or ten! I see myself as a marathon runner, not a sprinter.

To those who can't take criticism, I'd say get out of the art game. I'm not trying to be abrasive; I mean it from the bottom of my heart. You need a thick skin. The little bit of criticism you may receive here, believe you- me, it's nothing. Four years of art school and then being heavily involved in the gallery scene will kick the shit out of your ego!

I confess to feeling irritated with those who turn up here with a laundry lits of marketing questions. It's particularly annoying. I don't feel inclined to give away my contacts or the details of my business lightly. It takes a long time to build up a loyal client base and develop a suite of products.

At the end of the day, Sooz, you're entitled to your opinions and your feelings and your self expression. Some see it as rude, I see it as direct. It takes all sorts to make this world. If I had to explain myself to everyone who took offence at me, I'd have some 'splainin' to do!!! IRL I'm quite mouthy!!!

I guess if you don't recognise the name Pnats and don't remember what she did it's not quite so clear...

I've been trying to stay out of this but it's upsetting me.

I didn't see the exchange in question at all so I'm not commenting on any particular recent event or any particular people.

I feel that there is a big difference between critiquing work and websites when asked for a critique and making personal comments about a person.

When someone has asked for comments on a piece of jewelry or a website, I think it is the only NICE thing to do to give them honest feedback, letting them know not only about typos but also honest opinions about things that don't look good or suggestions about other ways to do things. If someone actually came for help and not a pat on the back, constructive criticism will always be appreciated.

On the other hand, as was pointed out elsewhere in this thread, sometimes "OT" conversations can get out of hand and things can be said that really hurt people. Often things are taken out of context or maybe someone's just in a bad mood, and suddenly threads turn into personal attacks. That can really sour the newsgroup. I've had some side conversations with people who have become permanent lurkers after a streak of incidents. That is really too bad.

marisa2

Marisa Cappetta wrote:

Oh, dear...This is a great group, and I'm still a relative newbie here. The idea of a hierarchy or GroupThink makes me really nervous. Usenet was meant to host a free exchange of ideas, not a place to get political about memberships.

I come here because there are some really kind and wonderful people who help me learn. I try to pass on things that I've learned. I don't *want* to have to be loyal to anyone or any group. Maybe it's different for people who talk off-group and form RL friendships.

Please don't turn this into a giant RCB war. I've seen too many groups go downhill over the years, don't let this one get fractured too!

I need to dig out my newspaper and reread it, that's not what I got out of it at all, or I wouldn't have posted it!

Kar>

One really hard thing to learn about assertiveness is the difference between "assertive" and "passive-aggressive". It's a subtle line and it's easier to see in other people's behavior then in one's own behavior. In practice it does also seem to involve picking your battles correctly, and not getting into ones that aren't worth it because they can tend to get out of hand, since they don't really center on a real issue that is important to both parties to resolve.

Also (at least for me), fighting too many "battles" makes other people ignore anything that is brought up. At best, you'll be labeled a constant worrier and disregarded. At worst, you can be considered a whiner or a jerk.

marisa2

"Dr. Sooz" wrote:

Deirdre!!! I hope that you will come back again sometime. I will miss your posts, till then. I've come to value your insights and humor. Sarajane

Sarajane's Polymer Clay Gallery

view my auctions at:

No Sooz? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! I can't live with the Dr. Sooz. Don't go away. We loves you.

Passive aggressive is very different from assertive. They are almost opposites. Assertive means putting things out on the table and owning them. Passive aggressive is all about misdirection, like working at sounding sweet with the intention of hurting someone. Offering someone something in a way that that can only accept it by looking foolish or selfish. Etc.

Tina

I've noticed a tendency in myself (and sometimes in others) to believe I am just defending myself or a just cause and react in a way that in retrospect was inappropriate, lashing out at a person or a problem and excusing myself for it because I felt my reasons were just and that I was just asserting myself. Maybe this is more "aggressive" then "passive-agressive".

I personally tend to be sarcastic (if I feel secure) or overly apologetic (if I don't), which ends up working as a guilt-trip on others, whether I intended it to or not. I believe both sarcasm and guilt trips can be considered passive-aggressive. Doing or saying something to someone that hurts them and then coming up with elaborate justifications seems to fall into this category also, I believe. So does representing things a certain way so that a bunch of

3rd parties rally to your own side, in such a way that it puts them directly against another person.

marisa2

Christ>

There was a lot of carping about people asking questions about things that they could easily find the answers to on their own over at rec.crafts.professional (before it became a ghost-group). Mostly the person would be referred to the FAQs list (does this group have one?). There is also somewhere on the web where one can go to find an endless amount of previous posts to any news group. Once the subject is entered, it will bring up posts dealing with the subject. (Please don't ask me where it is, I'm not that good with this stuff!) Anyway, there it is. A perennial problem on any group. I say, let those who wish to answer do so, them what don't, don't need to answer! This explains nothing, nor does it give any easy answers, but I'm still willing to take the Sees candy! They stopped selling in St. Louis some time back. I have years of wonderful memories of my grandfather taking my sister and me to Sees for toffee suckers (I always liked the dark ones). He is greatly missed. Barbara Dream Master

"We've got two lives, one we're given, the other one we make." Mary Chapin Carpenter

I am much more selective about who and why I help someone as I get

me too. but i also find that a lot of people just need to get it off their chest, and dont want my advice. but i have often been the one giving advice when i shouldnt so that comes into play to...

alia

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 16:23:16 -0400, pnats in teh ants wrote (in message ):

Elizabeth,

Come on. I've never had a beef with you. In fact I like you, but I beg to differ. I don't kiss anyone's feet, and couldn't bow if you paid me, yet I don't have problems with anyone on here. This is a public place and as you know, newbies bop in all the time with the same darned questions over and over. What made this situation different is that the poster got all bent out of shape when she heard the cold, hard truth.

No one here can control you or abuse you without your cooperation. There are some very powerful tools here: the delete key, the next key and the kill file. Sticking around to argue with anyone is non-productive, and those that get caught on the wrong side of an argument have no one to blame but themselves. After all, it's tough to argue all by yourself.

Like any other newgroup, this place is a buffet. Take what you like and leave the rest.

Kathy N-V

P.S: Glad to see you're alive and kicking, Ms. Pnats. I worry about you when you don't pop up now and again.