OT: New Orleans (VERY long!)

Oh, heavens, yes. It's certainly not original to me ;-)

Best wishes, Ericka

More than two sides, I bet!

Just saw that the fifth member of the Federal Disaster team has been given the order of the boot - they say that they haven`t received any training in disasters. John wanted to know how you could be trained in disasters? LOL!

Pat P

I just started that training with the Red Cross last night. If you think about it, tornado and fire drills at schools are a form of disaster training and (here at least) we've been doing those for decades. Police officers, emergency medical personnel, and firefighters have been training even longer.

Of course the flippant answer is: Have a toddler--a new disaster every time you turn around!

Pat P wrote:

Yup, George Bush sure did "drop" the ball badly. He should've been able to divert the hurricane from ever hitting the Gulf Coast.

Jayne

Oh ? I didn't realize he was supposed to be god. I referred to the manner in which he handled the aftermath, or rather, didn't handle it.

First off, I will say that I will do my best to make this my last post to this thread -- that horse has been dead for a long time now!! I just went back and reread the article and I still agree with it. The "Welfare State" did not encourage people to have any initiative. True, things are changing for the better but those changes had to be legislated because of the people who were taking advantage of the system

-- the parasites. Just because the changes were started in the late

90's doesn't mean that all of the people on Welfare are now filled with purpose and initiative. My focus and comments have changed to address what others have posted. I don't know why I am criticized for that! This discussion morphed as most of them do and my comments have addressed the points brought up in the different posts. It seems that because I am voicing an unpopular viewpoint, I don't have the right to explain the different aspects of my opinion. This part of the article is the part that I find most disturbing -- and, unfortunately, still relevant regardless of the changes in the welfare system..... "There were many decent, innocent people trapped in New Orleans when the deluge hit--but they were trapped alongside large numbers of people from two groups: criminals--and wards of the welfare state, people selected, over decades, for their lack of initiative and self-induced helplessness. The welfare wards were a mass of sheep--on whom the incompetent administration of New Orleans unleashed a pack of wolves...." The last two paragraphs that seem to upset most people are as follows "....But what about criminals and welfare parasites? Do they worry about saving their houses and property? They don't, because they don't own anything. Do they worry about what is going to happen to their businesses or how they are going to make a living? They never worried about those things before. Do they worry about crime and looting? But living off of stolen wealth is a way of life for them.

The welfare state--and the brutish, uncivilized mentality it sustains and encourages--is the man-made disaster that explains the moral ugliness that has swamped New Orleans. And that is the story that no one is reporting." Now, I do disagree with the use of the phrase "brutish, uncivilized mentality" when speaking of "the welfare state". The criminals were brutish & uncivilized but not the rest of the people. Most would agree that there IS a portion of welfare recipients who are parities. The number of welfare recipients who *are* parasites isn't relevant to this discussion because the article isn't about that. I will still stand by my statement that *those who were physically able* (not pregnant women as The Karen seems to think I am targeting OR the ill, elderly, disabled, etc. -- those who disagree with me find it easier to just believe I mean everyone) could have just gotten up and walked out of the Super Dome or Convention Center once the flooding had stabilized. I think the people stayed because our society has come to expect someone -- regardless of who that someone is -- to do something and fix the problem. I also still believe that K's friend was far better off out on the side of the road sleeping in his car. The evac centers might have had roofs but they also had rapists, criminals, non-functioning rest room facilities, etc. Does anyone really think K's friend would have preferred squatting down on the carpeted floor of the evac center to relieve himself? Because that's what people were having to do! I don't have to justify (or document) my opinion that there are welfare parasites. Common sense and experience tell us that ALL systems, organizations, groups of people have their fair share of parasites -- it's the human condition. I certainly didn't say that ALL welfare recipients or even those on welfare who were trapped in the evac centers were parasites OR sheep but that seems to be what people think I said. The Welfare System that operated in this country up until the end of the 20th century did encourage people to be parasites on society. THAT statement I can document

. Time will tell if the new reforms are going to be effective. I, for one, certainly hope so!

I dont know if it is still going strong, but for years our equivalent of FEMA, Emergency Planning Canada had a school for training people in coping with disasters. Routinely one of the courses, which were 5 days in length, was for mayors of cities. One such mayor subsequently had to take charge of a disaster, and was asked whether the course helped. His answer was WTTE, "Yes indeed. I learned that I would get very different stories from the various heads of my departments who were operating during the crisis, and that it would be up to me to decide who was right, and make the hard decisions".

-- Jim Cripwell. A volante tribe of bards on earth are found,/ who, while the flattering zephyrs round them play,/ on "coignes of vantage" build their nests of clay;/ how quickly from that aery hold unbound,/ dust for oblivion!/ To the solid ground/ of nature trusts the mind that builds for aye. Wordsworth.

Brenda

I should have said "Disasters on THAT scale!" We don`t get too many of those!

You`re right about the toddlers, though! ;-))

Pat P

>

What were they supposed to do about the guards who were preventing their exit from the Superdome?

Sadly, they're lowering the number of folks on the welfare rolls, but don't seem to be doing a great deal to help people out of poverty.

Best wishes, Ericka

FEMA has such courses. You can get certified as a citizen emergency responder or something like that (I think the acronym is CERT). They also offer training and support for state and local government officials. I don't have any idea as to the quality of the programs--just know they exist.

Best wishes, Ericka

I usually stay out ofnthese things but I came across a couple of things that might be of interest to those following this thread.

Here is a pretty complete timeline of everthing leading up to Katrina and the aftermath...complete with documentation of who did/said what and when.

And here is an interesting view from inside NO by a couple of EMTs who were attending a professional meeting in NO when Katrina struck.

EJ

Tagging, again, on one of your posts: Hubby has been trying to help in the aftermath of Katrina. The Red Cross is looking for medical personnel. Originally, his employer was going to find a way around the third week request. Today, the Red Cross gave the okay for a two-week stint. So he'll be on his way to Baton Rouge shortly. He goes in for training on Tuesday!

It makes us feel like we're doing something . . . especially after the kindness that was given to us when Tom lost his job when the local hospital closed its doors.

I'll also have a better picture of what, exactly, has gone on.

Dianne

Karen .... The German Army overtook Holland in 5 days , Mostly by Paratroopers who Jumped from Aeroplanes , Tanks , Jips , trains , motorcycles, ..... `Actias`, were performed with Trucks jips motorcycles horses ,, etc,,,

You are, of course, entitled to your point of view. But it is, in my estimation, extremely mean-spirited, wrong-headed, biased and racist.

And the writer would know that because he took a census and understands fully, without bias, who was actually trapped?

But the writer was painting all of those trapped as brutish, uncivilized from the moment he set pen to write his thesis. And you've been agreeing with his mindset.

And how many of those were there? We've been watching coverage of this disaster, since it began, on three different networks. From what we can gather, incidences of looting, shooting, mayhem, were extremely minor. Reports of them very exaggerated.

Nobody is disputing that there is an "element" of those in poverty that seem, on the surface, to be less deserving. But that percentage is always pointed to as if it represented ALL on welfare, or ALL who are poor.

They were not allowed to leave. Unless you do a lot of reading, or watching the news, you may have missed that part.

"Thinking" and "knowing" are two different things.

Dianne

There were - according to CBC - troublemakers who were released from city jails just as Katrina advanced as they could hardly leave them locked in cells. Odds on they were the trouble makers, not the impoverished.

Be more specific then....