OT - Pet Dreams?

Cheryl Isaak wrote: ? Yes, I drop off and

Cheryl, I had to stay out of this until the school dance bit!! I lived this way back in the 50s.

My Mom had a bit of Hyacinth about her; Dad was my Pal. I wore glasses, and until 14 had pigtails, braids whatever you want to call it. I was also terribly shy.

Dating as the US knows it was not much of a thing. Kids didn't have cars, and the last bus t left town before 10.30. There were some boys and girls who dated, but they were the minority. Anyway I digress!

Mom and Dad encouraged me to go to the school dances, held in the gym, with boys one side, and girls the other. I learned the word "wallflower" the hard way LOL> About 15 minutes before the end of the dance my dad would show up, and spend the time chatting with the Headmaster, and the Senior Master.they were friends. He ould tell me that if anyone wanted to walk me home, that would be fine. Now, what boy on God's green earth would walk a girl home with her father chatting to the Senior school staff?? My dad and I were pals, but the horror of those events live with me 50-55 years later! Of course, dad did it because Mum felt it was right!

In fact my friends and I all swore we would be virgins until age

Gillian

Gill Murray ,in rec.crafts.textiles.needleworkwrote: and entertained us with

Virgins until age 25 ???? How boring would that be ????

Oh, I don't know. I didn't quite make it to 25, but I came close. And it wasn't boring at all. I found plenty of "good boys" to date, who either were saving themselves for marriage or realized that becoming a father while still in college was not a good idea.

Yup, I did similar. Got the loans, they were a great supplement and necessity, actually. Even my fairly wealthy brother had the DN take out the max she could for law school - with his intent that he will pay them back for her as they can. But, for me - mine were deferred while in grad school, and then eventually I ended up paying the last $6K off in a lump early. Depending on careers - I think there are some options that allow you more of a deferment or some forgiveness - like doing the Peace Corps or inner city teaching - as examples - but I don't know that those are exactly correct.

You can always pay the loans back for them - and if things change, well, then everyone works on paying them back.

Unless, though I'd hate to think this - the money thing is your way of forcing them into what seems an exceptionally strict behaviour. Personally, I don't think forcing those kind of things works out well - it tends to inspire rebellion. If you trust your kids not to be total asses, and you trust the education both moral and intellectual that you've given them, then it would seem that by the time they're young adults they should be able to make some social/relationship decisions - good, bad, indifferent and learn from them. I mean, honestly, what if they decid they've had enough hockey? Then there is no acceptable social outlet for them - and some of this rigidity seems destined to turn them into social pariahs. Not to mention, likely forcing them into some guilt-ridden bouts of lying to the parents to be able to do something social, etc. or flipping totally and going really wild.

You certainly have time to think about reality with DD, as she's years from any of this. And why not consider your position now as a preferred guideline, but think of reconsideration when perhaps DS actually does want to go out with someone of the female persuasion. It just makes me sad that evidently there you are in NH, and all the teen-agers you either know or hear about are so far into the "bad" - while here in an urban area sure there are problems, but I know so many that are just fine, and much better than that.

ellice

Boy, how far we stray from needlework. I don't know about boring, but I sure know that I didn't make it that long. Of course, when I came home from college 1 break, and went to the Gyn for a check-up - I was ignorant, had a yeast infection without knowing what it was. And was a bit more experienced than the then boyfriend (I was his first serious, er, physical, relationship). The doc yelled at me in his office about STDs and slurring the boyfriend - with my mother there. My mom flipped. I yelled back that there was no way (since of course I knew that while the boyfriend had been a virgin I hadn't been at the time we indulged). Then the nurse comes in and says something to the doc. Then he turns red and says "sorry - you just have a yeast infection" . In the meantime, my mom is hysterical 'cause it's too late now to deny having "lost it" . Then the doc tells her he thinks the smart thing would be to put me on birth control - to which my mom responds " the smart thing would be abstinence" which of course they then argue about reality. I was sooooo mad at the doctor. And FWIW didn't go on bc because I didn't need to anyhow - but, man, some tales about Delfen foam in the old days.....

OTOH, this had me thinking about a book I read in college. It's called "La Celestina" - written in the 16th century. The class was Spanish literature pre-1800 (maybe pre-1700) . The class was generally known as "la literatura pornigrafica de Espana" (pornographic literature of Spain) . Anyhow - this book, written by someone around the time of Cervantes - is a political allegory. Celestina is essentially a madam - which means she is at the center of the socio-political world in mid 16th century Spain. There are some riotous conversations between the Duke & Prince, patrons of her establishment - discussing having some particular girl as a virgin - multiple times. In the narrative there is some explanation - Celestina is explaining sewing goat or sheep bladder membrane into the girls so they can be virgins multiple times.

Yup - it was quite the semester. And don't get me going about reading Quixote in the original - some scene with Dulcinea making sausages got so bawdy with my classful of South American guys that I actually walked out of the class. The professor told me I could do independent study, and just meet with him as needed or to take tests. Heck - each volume of Don Quixote was an entire quarter. Not quite Man of La Mancha.

ellice

Pretty exciting if your age is 24 years and 364 days!

Ya'll should change the subject line!!!

• At first glance I thought it read, "Re: dating (was Re: OT - Wet Dreams?"

No, it doesn't. My mother once threatened to disinherit me if I didn't do what she wanted, and I said "so what?" I was going to be earning my own money, I didn't need hers. They're not multi-millionaires, so no great loss if I walked away from it.

Do not be surprised, Cheryl, if DS (who doesn't much like school in the first place, IIRC) decides he'd rather have a girlfriend than go to college if you're going to make him choose between his inamorata and your money. You may live to regret this hard line.

Dr. Brat wrote

Friend of mine did the same thing. His dad was a high-ranking exec with a corporation I know you've heard of, so he certainly didn't NEED the loans as a make-or-break to getting an education. He used some of the loan money to be the first person on campus to have a computer (Trash-80 anyone?) and actually laughed about the government paying for his expensive toy.

His dad's money, meanwhile, was invested at a good interest rate, so he was earning money on what would've been spent on tuition while the tuition money was interest-free.

Interest free - mine were 7%

"Fred" ,in rec.crafts.textiles.needleworkwrote: and entertained us with

Now you're writing them Fred !!

Wow - that's weird. Mine were federally guaranteed, and less than 2% I'm sure. Actually - they were interest free during school, then accrued once out.

Ellice

I had 2 years of federal loans at 2%, 2 more at 7%; both post graduation pay off. Because my folks were living outside the country at the time and my level of income at the time (working multiple jobs), I was declared an "independent minor" and not eligible for the federal loans. I still snagged loans via the MA program, but interest started sooner after graduation.

Mine were interest-free while I was in school, but started being 7% after I left school.

Cheryl, I *told* you to send him to UND!!!! :) Out-of -state tuition right now is 13,786.00 + approx.4,600 for room & board for the year. That's still $1000 cheaper than your in-state. UND is a good school and you *know* we have a top-notch hockey program (with *the* state-of-the-art rink!)...and the women's team is up-and-coming, too!. We have many excellent programs, school-wise, for them to go into, too. UND is one of the top schools for the money in the nation according to surveys.

Yup, ND is the way to go! :)

Joan

You want him?

Not while you were in school, they weren't, or shouldn't have been. Federally guaranteed loans are interest free until you start paying them back. At that point, you just pay back the whole thing, unless your

Elizabeth

Mmm....34, anybody? (Oh! That would be me!)

Some of the loans I was offered through the State of MA did start accruing interest prior to graduation, with interest waived if you taught in MA for x years. The loan I did take (senior year) had two options accrue at 3% from signing or 7% starting 9 months post graduation. They only offered those packages at the start of the 80's.