I checked in today, and see that things are once again deteriorating on rctn in many threads. Maybe it's time we posted the FAQ and reminded everyone what this ng is all about! (And that does *not* include trashing other people, even if you disagree with them - if you must do that, take it to private email).
This was the most recent post I could find. Has anyone taken over on the faq archive since Kathy left?
Barbara HJ
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Kathleen M. Dyer Nov 24 2002, 7:49 pm show options Newsgroups: rec.crafts.textiles.needlework Followup-To: rec.crafts.textiles.needlework From: snipped-for-privacy@dnai.com (Kathleen M. Dyer) - Find messages by this author Date: 25 Nov 2002 00:48:15 GMT Local: Sun, Nov 24 2002 7:48 pm Subject: RCTN - What you need to know Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse
Posted-By: auto-faq 3.3 beta (Perl 5.006)
What You Need to Know About REC.CRAFTS.TEXTILES.NEEDLEWORK
Updated June 24, 2002 Kathleen M. Dyer
What is this rec.crafts.textiles.needlework, anyway?
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Rec.crafts.textiles.needlework (RCTN) is an unmoderated Usenet newsgroup. It was formed in September, 1994, after a vote to split the old rec.crafts.textiles group into several new groups.
The charter: This group will be for discussions about needlework, as defined by 'any form of decorative stitching done by hand'. Included will be all variations of stitchery: stamped embroidery, counted thread stitching, and canvas work, including needlepoint. Discussion might cover different kinds of canvases and fabric grounds, flosses, needles and other supplies, pattern design, marking, and finishing etc.
RCTN is unmoderated, as are most other newsgroups. Unmoderated means that no one person is in charge, and that anyone may post. Does this mean that anything goes? No. The rules of "netiquette" apply.
What rules? Who made them up? Why should I follow them?
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Netiquette just means good Internet manners. Netiquette can be summed up as:
~ Learn the way things are done and why they're done that way.
~ Don't abuse other people's resources.
~ Never say anything online to someone that you wouldn't be willing to say to that person's face.
Most of the "rules" of RCTN weren't invented here. They're the standard in tens of thousands of Usenet groups.
Always remember, RCTN is a Usenet newsgroup. It is not a Web site. It is not an email list. Usenet, the Web, and email all use the Internet to transmit information, but that's about all they have in common.
If you don't know how Usenet works, netiquette can seem arbitrary and strange. But if you learn a little bit about it, those rules start to make a lot of sense. They're all about sharing with other people and not wasting resources--a good thing to do just about anywhere.
So how does Usenet work?
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Believe it or not, nobody is officially in charge of Usenet! A small number of people have more power than others, but even that power is only granted to them because people choose to do so.
Each Internet Service Provider (ISP) decides for itself if it will carry newsgroups, and if so which of the tens of thousands of newsgroups it is going to carry.
There is no central location where articles are stored. *Each* ISP stores a copy of *every* article in *every* newsgroup it carries for its own users to read.
An ISP regularly checks the stream of posts flowing past, finds any it hasn't seen before, and stores copies of those. Also, the ISP throws copies of articles posted by its own users into the flood. Those articles eventually get copied by *all* the other ISPs that carry those newsgroups.
Since each ISP stores a copy of every article in every newsgroup it carries, a lot of disk space is used. Each ISP decides when to delete old articles on its disks to make room for new ones. That's called the "expire time." If the disks fill up quickly, the expire time gets shorter.
So, because of the way it all works, some interesting things happen.
~ Transferring articles from site to site isn't instantaneous, so you may see a reply before you see the original post. Or you might not receive exactly the same posts as someone who uses a different Internet provider. Or you may see all the same posts, but in a different order.
~ Massive abuses of the system on one newsgroup can impact people who don't even read that newsgroup!
But...but...how can that possibly work?
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Since no one is in charge of the big system or the unmoderated newsgroups, how does it keep working?!
It keeps working because people have voluntarily agreed to follow a set of rules that keep it working. Usenet has been around since at least 1979. After countless millions of messages in tens of thousands of newsgroups, people have a pretty good idea of what needs to be done to keep it all going. They also have a good idea of the kinds of behavior that make the system start to crack. That mass of experience is the source of the rules of netiquette.
In addition to the common rules, each newsgroup has its own culture and accepted practices. These are not "official" rules, but ignoring them
*will* cause you problems. Before posting to an unfamiliar newsgroup, read as many of the posts as possible. See if the group has a FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions document) and if so, read it. The odds are good that any newsgroup which has been around for more than a few months has a FAQ. The expectation in virtually *all* of the 40,000+ newsgroups is that if someone decides to participate, the least he or she can do is spend a little time learning how the group works.In many newsgroups, if you violate netiquette in some way, you will receive some extremely unpleasant email and posts in response. ("Unpleasant" as in commentary on one's intelligence, ancestry and romantic proclivities expressed in swear words one may never have seen or heard before.) Some groups are more gentle toward "newbies", simply informing them of the group's and Usenet's standards.
So, now I've probably terrified you to the point that you'll never post anything anywhere. :-)
Don't be scared! Read the rest of this document, try to get a feel for the way things work, use common sense, and be willing to admit that you're still learning your way around.
If you want to learn more about newsgroups and netiquette, go to these Web sites:
You can also subscribe to the "news.newusers.questions" group and the "news.announce.newusers" group.
For questions about missing articles, slow news, or problems with news reading software, the best place to start looking for help is with your own Internet Service Provider.
There are places on the Internet that archive newsgroup discussions. One of these is Google .
Definitions
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A post and the follow up posts are a "thread". The term "thread" is used on all newsgroups, but it is particularly appropriate for RCTN.
Some of the abbreviations people commonly use on RCTN are:
NP - needlepoint OT - Off topic, a post that isn't directly about needlework S.E.X. - Stash Enhancement eXperience (adding things to your "stash"). UFO - UnFinished Object, a project that has been started but not yet finished. XS - cross stitch
See "RCTN Abbreviations" for a longer list. It is available at .
Things you need to know about posting
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Don't post in HTML format!
~ Some ISPs filter out HTML posts, so the people using those ISPs will never see your posts.
~ Some people use newsreaders that flag an HTML post as an attachment. Since unknown attachments can be dangerous or annoying (viruses, worms, Trojan horses), many people will routinely delete these posts without opening them. Again, your post goes unseen.
~ Many newsreaders cannot process HTML, so people using these newsreaders see all the HTML tags. This makes the post very difficult to read. Not too surprisingly, people don't like to waste their online time deciphering gibberish, and they delete the HTML posts without reading them. Once more, your post goes unseen.
~ Compared to a plain text post, an HTML post takes up more disk space at every single ISP and it takes longer to download. So will *one* little HTML post make that much of a difference in the flood that is Usenet? No! It's simply a matter of respect for other people's time and resources.
Don't post pictures, sounds or other binary files! Binary files should not be posted to discussion-only newsgroups.
~ Binaries are usually much larger than text files and take much longer to download. An unexpected binary file can be a very unpleasant surprise to someone who pays for phone connection time or internet access time by the minute.
~ Binary files take much more space on each Internet Service Provider's disks, so some ISPs won't carry binary-only groups. If a discussion-only newsgroup starts to get too many binary files, it may be labeled as a "hidden binary" group and some ISPs may stop carrying it. So *other* people who had nothing to do with posting the binaries could lose their access to the newsgroup!
~ Binary files can "break" or "hang" some newsreaders. A binary file can force a person to have to restart their newsreader or even their computer.
Watch your quotes. Don't quote too much. Don't quote too little.
When you post a followup to a post, quote *only* what is needed from the original. But be careful not to get carried away and edit things too much. Don't delete the line that shows the name and email address of the person you are quoting. If there are nested quotes, be certain that each is attributed to the correct person.
The standard in Usenet newsgroups and mailing lists is to put your reply after any quoted material. RCTN doesn't worry about that particular bit of netiquette very much. However, even if you put your answer before any quoted material, you *still* should trim the quote as much as possible. Excessive quoting is bad netiquette, no matter where the quotes go. It wastes people's time, the article takes longer to download, and the article takes up more disk space at every Internet Service Provider.
Watch your line lengths.
The line length in anything you post should be 80 characters or less. Anything longer and others may not be able to see the ends or may have the lines wrap oddly. In fact, 80 is really too long because some allowance should be made for people quoting your post. A line length of about 72 usually works well.
POSTING IN ALL CAPITAL LETTERS IS CONSIDERED TO BE SHOUTING.
Let's talk!
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~ Never say anything online that you wouldn't be willing to say to the person's face. Never forget there are real people on the receiving end.
~ People can't see your face or hear your tone of voice in a post, so jokes and sarcasm can be missed. For this reason, some people use smilies to show they are joking. :-) ;-)
~ "Lurking" is reading a newsgroup without posting to it. There is no rule about how or when to delurk. Some people choose to delurk with an introductory post. Others jump in with a question or comment.
~ Do *not* offer to photocopy or scan a chart for someone else, or ask someone else to copy a chart for you. This is a violation of copyright.
~ If you start a new topic, make the title as descriptive as possible. Suppose you are looking for a supplier of counted cross stitch charts of frogs. You could title the post "Looking for charts", but it would be better to call it "XS - looking for frog charts".
~ If there's an on topic subject you are interested in and no one is discussing it, start the discussion yourself. Don't sit around waiting for someone else to do it. You want to talk about it, so probably other people do as well. And posting a complaint about how no one is discussing your favorite subject when *you* haven't even posted about it yourself just looks silly.
~ If you cause the topic of a thread to change, change the title so people can tell before reading that it is no longer about losing needles and has become a discussion about magnets swallowed by cows.
~ Email vs. posting: the general rule of thumb is that if the message is something that only one person or a very small number would be interested in, use email. If it may be of general interest (sharing, silliness, etc. can be of general interest), then post.
~ Posting email someone has sent to you without that person's permission is very poor netiquette.
~ You just heard of a horrible computer virus or scary real world danger, and you feel panicked and you know you must immediately email everyone in your address book and post about it to every newsgroup you read because after all everyone is in danger and it's awful and... (pause to gulp for air.) Stop. Take a deep breath. It's O.K. Now, check to make sure it isn't a hoax. You can do this by checking at sites such as:
"Hoaxbusters" "Hoax Warnings" "Computer Virus Myths " "Urban Legends Reference Pages"
Sometimes these warnings are very real, but a great many are well known hoaxes.
~ Test messages should be sent to a test newsgroup. For example, misc.test for general testing, and ba.test for the San Francisco Bay area.
~ It isn't wise to post your home address on a newsgroup. It's like putting the address on a large billboard beside a major highway.
~ RCTN allows a certain amount of Off Topic (posts that aren't directly about needlework) conversation. If you start or reply to an Off Topic thread, please make sure that the subject line starts with OT. That makes it easier for people and filters to skip.
~ Guess what! You know those topics people learn to avoid in real life because they cause arguments? Surprise! They cause arguments online, too. Even though RCTN allows some Off Topic threads, "hot button" topics just tend to cause bad feelings. Most topics of this type have their very own newsgroups. Use them.
Never assume that everyone in the group is the same as you with regard to country, nationality, culture, subculture, education, financial status, religious or spiritual background, political beliefs, etc. Sweeping generalizations will likely get you into trouble.
What to do and what not to do if you see an online fight
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Unmoderated newsgroups are just that--unmoderated. This is both the strength and the weakness of newsgroups. People have the freedom to soar to new heights. They also have the freedom to act very poorly. Fortunately, the good usually makes it worth putting up with the occasional bad.
Fights can happen because of conflicts of opinion, the anonymity of the computer screens, cultural misunderstandings, misreading of a post, or someone just having a bad day. These fights are not always bad for a newsgroup--it depends on the group, the cause of the fight, and the course it takes.
Be aware that flaming (fighting) is normal in all of the tens of thousands of unmoderated newsgroups. Flaming follows very standard patterns. It might be a blow to the ego for a flamer on either side of any battle to realize how utterly unoriginal his or her behavior is, but the complete predictability of it all makes for some great jokes...
Twelve Commandments of Flaming on the Internet
Things not to do:
~ Don't contribute to the flames.
~ Don't make lightly veiled comments in *other* threads about how badly those other people are behaving. You've just spread the mess into new threads. A bad move.
~ Don't make statements which are meant to sound dramatic but come across as rather silly. Come to think of it, when it comes to flames, *most* statements which are meant to sound dramatic come across as rather silly.
Things to do:
~ If you think flames are taking over the group, make an on topic post about something else. That makes the percentage of flame posts smaller.
~ If you find that a particular thread bothers you, don't read it! Even better, automatically filter it out if your newsreader will let you. The same goes if you find that a particular person's posts always bother you. As in any group of several thousand people, you'll probably find that there are some you don't have the time or desire to deal with. So, don't!
Check out the following site if you can't figure out how to use your newsreader's filters. It has instructions for several programs.
Get Into That Bitbucket!!!!
Posts on newsgroups are seen by thousands of people. Posts are archived at WWW sites where search engines allow millions of other people to retrieve them months and years later. Do you really want your co-worker or boss or acquaintance see what you wrote, three years from now? Ten years from now?
Watch out for trolls and other ugly beasties!
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A troll is a post made specifically to get people riled up. A troll is also a person who makes this kind of post. If you see a troll, either filter it, ignore it, or, if you *have* to respond, use email. The person making the post *wants* a public response. That's the whole point of the exercise. It gives the person a feeling of power.
The simplest form of trolling is when an unfamiliar person posts a wildly inflammatory message.
A slightly more subtle form is when a person deliberately posts about a topic that people have strong feelings about. Invariably, other folks get caught up in taking sides, feeling that it is absolutely *vital* that they present their viewpoint. They get so focused on the topic that they can't see that they're being manipulated. If the arguing shows signs of dying down, sometimes a troll will attempt to keep it going by posting from multiple accounts so he or she can "argue" on both sides.
Trolling can get even more subtle, involving several weeks or months of planning and set up. But I'm not going to give lessons on how to do it.
So, is every inflammatory message or "hot button" post a troll? Absolutely not! But the response to a troll and something that *looks* like a troll should be about the same--ignore it or take it to email. Sometimes, it really
*is* O.K. to stay silent. Even better, make an on topic post about something else. That makes the percentage of troll posts smaller and keeps them from taking over all of the discussion.If you want to make a complaint, try "postmaster" or "abuse" at the originating site.
No, it is not O.K. to post your advertisement on RCTN!
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Posting an advertisement in a newsgroup that doesn't want ads is bad netiquette. The document "Advertising on Usenet: How To Do It, How Not To Do It" is posted regularly to news.announce.newusers. Many people on Usenet can tell of formerly lively and useful newsgroups which were taken over and made useless by advertising.
Most newsreader software allows users to include a 4 line "signature" at the end of every post. This signature can include an email address or a quote or a Web address (URL) or whatever else the person cares to add. Most newsgroups don't have a problem with a person's signature including a link to a commercial site, as long as the signature is part of a real post.
The topic of advertising on RCTN has been discussed repeatedly. My understanding of the general agreement is as follows...
People with a professional interest in the needlework business are *very* welcome on the newsgroup. Readers enjoy hearing the inside scoop about a design or magazine or Web site, and having someone answer a question when they're in a unique position to do so is good. RCTN is proud of its designers, writers, editors, and store owners.
That said, certain types of posts are not appropriate. Posts that say, "Send money and I'll sell you this product" are not appropriate. Posts that say, "Come see the items I've posted for sale in the marketplace newsgroup or a Web auction site" are not appropriate. A regular, weekly announcement about a business or web site is not appropriate. There is a newsgroup just for these, and RCTN isn't it. The group is rec.crafts.textiles.marketplace, and you can read more about it below.
Other types of posts are in a gray area, but seem acceptable to most people. These include an occasional announcement by the site owner of a new web site or significant change in a web site, an announcement by the designer of a new design, an announcement by an author of an article, and so on. If in doubt, post it to rec.crafts.textiles.marketplace instead.
Ads and regular announcements belong in rec.crafts.textiles.marketplace. That newsgroup was formed in May, 1996 using the "official" creation process for the "rec" groups. It passed 272 to 29.
The rec.crafts.textiles.marketplace charter and rationale are as follows:
NAME: rec.crafts.textiles.marketplace
CHARTER: rec.crafts.textiles.marketplace is an unmoderated group for selling, buying, trading, and "jobs offered/sought" postings related to textiles and any of the textile arts. Announcements of textile and textile arts business's web pages are also welcome. Individual, one-time transactions are welcome in this group, as are commercial advertisements. "Continuing" or repeat advertisements are subject to the following restrictions:
- Continuing/repeat ads must not be posted more often than once per two week period. 2. Continuing/repeat ads must contain a Subject: line which is identical to the original. 3. Continuing/repeat ads should include an expiration date which must be no more than two weeks after the date of posting, and/or make use of the supercedes header.
Advertisers and ads which require lots of space, multiple postings for individual products, or repeated postings, are strongly urged to consider shorter, less frequently reposted, combination ads directing further respondents to email, web pages, mail, telephone, FAX, etc., instead, for further information. Postings about non-textile and non-textile-arts related products, services and jobs are not welcome in this group.
RATIONALE: There has been a lot of discussion over the past year, in all the textile hierarchy newsgroups, about appropriate places for posting advertisements. There is no existing rec.crafts.textiles hierarchy group in which marketplace posts are appropriate. All of the existing rec.crafts.textiles.* newsgroups are for discussions only. A group dedicated to textile-specific marketplace posts would concentrate these posts for the benefit of those who are interested and reduce them in inappropriate groups. The textiles sub-hierarchy is the largest and one of the fastest growing hierarchies in rec.crafts, consisting of five separate newsgroups. Discussion in news.groups indicates that many users feel that such a large sub-hierarchy deserves its own marketplace newsgroup and a traffic analysis over three months (September, October, November, 1995) indicates that there are enough textile ads to fill such a group. The name of the proposed group is chosen to match the existing rec.crafts.textiles.* and *.marketplace newsgroup naming conventions.
That's all
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To describe the Internet and how to use it would take a book. In fact there are dozens, if not hundreds, of books out there which do just that. Reading one can take a lot of the mystery out of using the Internet.
Other newsgroups you may find to be of interest are rec.crafts.textiles.yarn (for knitting, crocheting, spinning, weaving), rec.crafts.textiles.quilting, rec.crafts.textiles.sewing, rec.crafts.textiles.machine-knit, rec.crafts.textiles.misc, rec.crafts.textiles.marketplace (for advertising), uk.rec.crafts (United Kingdom), and es.rec.labores (Spanish).
After all the serious "how to's" discussed above, I'd like to end with a limerick...
Welcome to RCTN. A fun place to visit, and when You've questions to ask 'Bout a needlework task You'll get a good answer or ten.