fabric "markings"

Seriously??? I know Muslims who are wonderful people and this is way after

9/11.

I guess this just goes to show that we will never get past the bigotry and hatred which causes most of the misery in this world.

I despair.

Wasn't this a rumor about a brand that used a crescent moon and star in their logo? Even before the internet made the spreading of these rumors so easy.

Cindy

The Procter & Gamble logo had a man in the moon and several stars -- similar but not quite the same. Read more about that kerfluffle at

Julia in MN

I despair too, Cindy. I knew Muslims pre-911 too; I worked in the public libraray which many of them frequented. They appeared to be gentle, kind parents who were extraordinarily involved in their childrens' educations. Now my doctor is Muslim, and IMO he also has a gentle manner and is the smartest cardio in the country, again IMO. I lived through the OKC bombing, and the very first guy who was harrassed was a Muslim running away from the scene. Turns out he owned a business on the same block and was running for his life, like everybody else. I felt bad, really bad for him; IIRC he had been born herel I grew up with extreme bigotry and racism. I swore it would stop with me. The logo you're talking about (the version here), had something to do with Satanism. Then the Smurfs came out, and they were supposed to be the Devil's cartoon. THEN some foolishness got started about Unicorns being second-cousins to the devil or something (after I had ordered 24 unicorn shirts for the Brownie troop

-- and their parents wouldn't let them wear them). Along the same time, a revival came to town and convinced the teenagers to bring their vinyl LP's for a bonfire to burn the devil's music. I swear. Even as young as I was back then, I knew those people were

*way* too obsessed with ole Beezlebub. I wasn't going to let him have that kind of power over me. Sorry for the soapbox rant. I just hope all those kids (grown up today), have encouraged their kids to be thinkers and not followers like sheep. I understand the contempt to reflect *anything* related to the terrorists we're talking about. I just hate it when "terrorist" just becomes a blanket term for all the Muslim folks. Call me gullible. Thanks for the vent. Sherry

I do not have anything against Muslins, I just won't buy anything with their emblem. I have many friends of many different religions and of many colors and was different types of sexes. I love them all. It's not the Muslins, it's not the Germans....it was their "signs" and what they stood for for certain segments of their people.

The skinheads in USA and England use the Swastika today. It's ugly and horrifying. There are Muslins who use their signs in the same way. It's them that I am talking about. I am an American and I would never use our flag or our bald eagle in anything derogatory. Call me old fashion, but I know history and how if certain things are allowed to grow unchecked, life has turn on your in a second.

But I am not a bigot and I'm certainly not talking about unicorns or anything else of that nature. And I agree with your statement that I hope and pray that our children grow up to be not only thinkers but doers. And that they don't forget their history.

Donna off her soapbox

I despair too, Cindy. I knew Muslims pre-911 too; I worked in the public libraray which many of them frequented. They appeared to be gentle, kind parents who were extraordinarily involved in their childrens' educations. Now my doctor is Muslim, and IMO he also has a gentle manner and is the smartest cardio in the country, again IMO. I lived through the OKC bombing, and the very first guy who was harrassed was a Muslim running away from the scene. Turns out he owned a business on the same block and was running for his life, like everybody else. I felt bad, really bad for him; IIRC he had been born herel I grew up with extreme bigotry and racism. I swore it would stop with me. The logo you're talking about (the version here), had something to do with Satanism. Then the Smurfs came out, and they were supposed to be the Devil's cartoon. THEN some foolishness got started about Unicorns being second-cousins to the devil or something (after I had ordered 24 unicorn shirts for the Brownie troop

-- and their parents wouldn't let them wear them). Along the same time, a revival came to town and convinced the teenagers to bring their vinyl LP's for a bonfire to burn the devil's music. I swear. Even as young as I was back then, I knew those people were

*way* too obsessed with ole Beezlebub. I wasn't going to let him have that kind of power over me. Sorry for the soapbox rant. I just hope all those kids (grown up today), have encouraged their kids to be thinkers and not followers like sheep. I understand the contempt to reflect *anything* related to the terrorists we're talking about. I just hate it when "terrorist" just becomes a blanket term for all the Muslim folks. Call me gullible. Thanks for the vent. Sherry

"Donna" wrote:

Well I suspect you're in a minority of one here.

For everybody else, here is a selection of links that might help in using Islamic imagery in quilting:

9/11 quilt A Muslim quilt you won't see Basic site on Islamic calligraphy "Bismillah" in Square Kufic Intro to Square Kufic (ideal for patchwork) Square Kufic on clothing Answers.com on Islamic calligraphy (and a Christian Arabic example) Calligraphy for "love" and "peace" as a t-shirt Calligraphy for the cover of a book about the Jenin massacre Arabic spraycan graffiti brightening up bombed Beirut Square Kufic calligraphy design instructions Common design ideas in Islamic calligraphy Modern abstract Arabic calligraphy Variants of "Bismillah" Iranian woman artist (look at the third page of "spiritual paintings" for something naturally quiltable) More Persian art (if you can turn any of this into a quilt you're a technical genius) Huge and amazing gallery of Persian calligraphy ==== j a c k at c a m p i n . m e . u k === ==== Jack Campin, 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland == mob 07800 739 557 CD-ROMs and free stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, and Mac logic fonts ****** I killfile Google posts - email me if you want to be whitelisted ******

Fascinating links, Jack. Thanks for posting. I'll come back and look more at them later. Really like the link with the spiritual paintings.

G> "D> > I do not have anything against Muslins, I just won't buy anything

quiltable)

Jack this one was my favorite. i loved the blue one with the shading. the quotation was beautiful.

Can't we all just get along?? Bigotry and predjudice not only hurt those around you and infest the masses, but i believe it also poisons the soul.

people are people are people. it takes all kinds to make a world.

amy in CNY

Wow, Jack! Hit a nerve? :-)

The only reason I can think of for avoiding elements of a culture one is not familiar with is just that - not being familiar enough with it, and not wanting (out of ignorance) to use something in an inappropriate way or context that would offend. I have seen it happen quite often with Native American imagery. But if one has done the research, and is competently knowledgable (as you obviously are) I see no problem with it.

As one having an interest in the works of Escher, I'm reminded that a lot of his designs were inspired by Arabic/Islamic art. IIRC (and I may not) one of the reasons that Islamic art is geometric is that images of living creatures/people are prohibited(?)

Doc

Sort of. Islam is so heterogeneous that it has no overall position on the matter - there are far deeper divergences of opinion on almost everything than you get between any sects calling themselves Christian. But if a Muslim artist wants to appeal to absolutely everyone calling themselves Muslim, then yes they avoid pictures of people or animals, and you won't find such pictures in mosques or on the decorations on religious objects. There are very few places where prohibition of such images goes for the secular world as well (maybe only Saudi Arabia and places where Saudi ideology is enforced, and even the Saudis release PR pictures of their royal family).

On the other hand some Shiite sects go so far over the top with pictures of martyrs and saints that you'd think you were in rural Catholic Ireland, the imagery is almost the same. I've been to the centre of the Alevi/Bektashi dervish order, Hacibektas in Turkey - it's got an unusual atmosphere for a Muslim holy place, with no mosques (Bektashis don't go to them), just about no women wearing headscarves and men and women drinking beer in the sidewalk cafes, but boy do they have tacky tastes in art.

The crescent symbol is pre-Islamic - I've seen it carved in the stone at the Sabaean planet-worshipping centre of Sogmatar, where it is a symbol of Sin, the moon deity. It was adopted for the flag of the secular Turkish republic, and the local variant with three crescents is the party emblem of the *extremely* secular fascist Nationalist Action Party in Turkey (truly repulsive thugs). So it's not like the Muslims ever trademarked it. See figure 13 here for a Sabaean crescent symbol that looks exactly like the decorative finials you get on mosques:

And here we have the crescent as a religious symbol in ancient Roman paganism, Catholicism and Buddhism as well: ==== j a c k at c a m p i n . m e . u k === ==== Jack Campin, 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland == mob 07800 739 557 CD-ROMs and free stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, and Mac logic fonts

****** I killfile Google posts - email me if you want to be whitelisted ******

Curse you, Jack! I wasted a long, long time going through your links and clicking through the links on those pages.....you and your links have seduced me and kept me from more productive things this morning. LOL

Sunny

I think it is possible that that this post will offend people why is it here? I never thought I would see this type of thing in my quilting group :( Would it make sense to say I would never put a cross on due to the sybolism and death and such intollerance accociated? My son got a noahs ark baby blanket with a nice saying from john 3:16 on it I still have it and I apprciate the gift and the spirit in which it was given.This is sad, I am an american citizen and I am muslim. Thank you for this and yes you are prejudice. This should never have been posted on a world wide quilting group :(

Wow what a wealth of information :-).

Thanks, Bev in TX

Carissa,

I agree with you. This post served no purpose whatsoever. It is divisive. I'm agnostic, and yet always accept gifts, blessings, well-wishes that contain a religious meaning with the spirit in which it is intended.

Please don't let this post discourage you from participating in RTCQ.

Best regards, Michelle > I think it is possible that that this post will offend people why is it

Thanks for the best laugh I've had today! I don't have anything against Muslins either...I mostly use them on the back of my quilts to show off the quilting, but if I'm doing an old-fashioned quilt, there's nothing like a bit of muslin to give that well-loved look!