Firehouse Angel Finishing, $$ Issues, etc.

Leave it to you, TM, to pull us all back together after the latest (and I hope last) unpleasantness! Here are my thoughts (top-posted because I didn't want to snip your suggestions):

I am delighted that you are still willing to do the soft finishing. Having admired your work in your photo albums, I know it will enhance all of our stitching. I do not, however, think much of the ax handle bit. I would just have the angel in a shadow box or whatever you decide will do her justice.

I think first names are sufficient to give her a personal touch, and I would suggest a few lines explaining how she came to be. If you'd like, I'll write up a bit for the back of the frame/box/whatever based on the information on Dianne's website and include the names (and states/countries, if we think that would a nice touch and if we can get that information).

Not that it matters at this point, but I gave the fabric.

It's nice to see our project nearing an end, and to see our stitchers coming together again.

Felice

And if they don't have one, you can pick them up at a hardware store.

I know I sent you a fat quarter of it, but I don't know it that's the one you'll be using for the finishing. Not looking for credit, just to ease Tia Mary's mind.

Sara in Delaware

I would like to see the Angel simply framed, not soft-finished. With a small plaque (Dedicated to . . . . ) and an envelope on the back with the web pages - as that is our history.

My vote is to forget the "axe" thingy. The Angel is far too sophisticated and meaningful for this treatment.

Dianne

Felice Friese wrote:

I agree with you Dianne. Personally I would prefer your idea for finishing.

Lucille

I feel stupid having to ask this, but what does "soft finished" mean?

lizard-gumbo wrote:

Don't feel stupid -- if you weren't here for the first round of discussions how would you know?? OK -- the plan was that "rough up the edges of fabric that is the same as the Angel -- fray and burn and sort of make the whole thing look as if it had been rescued from some sort of fire or disaster. Then I would attach the "distressed" fabric around the Angel and *then* it would be put into some sort of frame. Vic originally had the idea to hang the "soft finished" piece from an old fireman's ax and then mount the whole thing into a large shadow box type frame. Since the Angel was her idea in the first place everyone sort of went along with this *tentative* plan. I know a bunch of those involved are not terribly fond of Vic but that should have nothing to do with the "finishing" treatment of the Angel. I think that is the way most everyone feels too. At the time, everyone liked the idea of including some "fire damaged" fabric **of the same type** as the Angel. With as many people involved as there have been on this project, to reach a consensus on final finishing will be near impossible. I do know that most people liked the idea of "finishing" her in some manner other than the standard mat & frame. Yes, she is beautiful but the whole point of all the other "alternative finishing" ideas was to point up the fact that beauty can and WILL make it through disaster and come out the other side alive and well. Also, this piece was originally to go to the Fire House that suffered the most losses in 9/11. After some discussion, most of us agreed it would be best if it went to the FDNY HQ. The original thought was that you don't hang a fancy-schmancy framed needlework piece on the wall of a local Fire House hence the other, alternative finishing options. Personally, I don't think she should be put into a nice gold frame with a nice color coordinated mat. Ho-Hum -- just like all the rest of the bazillion MLI angels out there. I would like to see something different and eye-catching and unique so that this beautiful piece isn't lost in the HQ building. To do any sort of standard type of framing will cost HUNDREDS of dollars -- even with a 50% off coupon from Michael's. I doubt very seriously if we can come up with donations for THAT kind of money! This was another reason we brain-stormed here on the group to come up with alternative ways to finish the piece. So -- now you know chapter and verse -- LOLOL! Bet you're sorry you asked -- I would be :-). CiaoMeow >^;;^<

That simply isn't true. Not everyone agreed about this. Some of us were just weary of the conversation and wanted to get started on the stitching and worry about the finishing later. :-)

I will again say that is a stretch. Read my above comments. :-)

Yes,

Never remember this being discussed.

Also,

Yes.

Actually, I think it was Victoria that decided that and most of us just went along. Most of us have been more interested in getting her stitched than the fine details of what to do with her after she is stitched.

Again my same itterations/utterances.

I hardly think a burned piece of cloth hanging from an axe will do this Angel any justice.

Never underestimate the charity of RCTN.

When you're not faced with finishing, you can wrangle and half-heartedly agree to most anything just to get things moving along. NOW is the time to brainstorm to see what we should do with her.

Dianne

I've seen this sentiment turned over a couple of times by several people, and only had this to say:

I dated a fireman and there are a lot of creative types amongst them, mostly to beat the boredom. In his firehouse there were a couple of knitters and a cross stitcher, as well as some...uh...creative cookery (beer-battered and deep-fried Twinkies, anyone?).

I don't think a nice piece of hand-made art given from the heart would go awry in any firehouse, no matter how frou-frou it may seem to US in comparison to what they do for a living.

As to finishing, thanks for the explanation and visual because I just could NOT for the life of me figure out how an axe fit into the equation.

Thanks for reminding us, TM! I've been in on this since the beginning and had forgotten the finishing details.

Now I have a question: Has anyone thought about what the burned edges might do to the finished piece? Does the burned part give off any kind of gas that might damage all our hard work? I wonder if there's someone on the group that could answer this or maybe get some advice from a textile conservator???

I'm not trying to make things more difficult, believe me! It just crossed my mind as I was reading the progression of the project.

Another idea: rather than hanging her *from* the axe, what if the axe were put in a separate compartment of the framing? Have the angel on one side (or above or below) protected with a divider between her and the axe. Does that make sense?

Joan

Well, I thought that *IF* I did the whole "distressed & burned" thing, I would wash the fabric first. THIS is the reason the Felice sent me a HUGE piece of the fabric. I was going to experiment with it and see what would work best. CiaoMeow >^;;^<

OK -- whatever -- you remember differently than MOI. Let's all remember that this is JUST NEEDLEWORK and it's not at all important in the grand scheme of things. It doesn't matter who did what or how mean anyone was or how nice anyone was. It's just not that important! So, I just remember that most people weren't dead set against anything -- even the whole ax business. What I know for a fact is that we ALL agreed that any firm decisions about how to finish &/or frame the piece should wait until we were near the end of the stitching. I am sure you don't remember a lot of what was discussed because it was a part of the process that you wouldn't be involved in. I ,OTOH, am the one who was to do any soft finishing *IF* it was to be done so I DO remember the discussions. The whole reason I suggested adding burned or "distressed" fabric was because some people were against the standard mat & frame. Someone talked about the firemen saving stuff and I came up with the whole burned thing and trying to make the piece look as if IT had been rescued from a fire. That's when someone said something about the appropriateness of the juxtaposition of beautiful angel and the damaged fabric and how it would be very symbolic -- or something along those lines. I think a mat & frame job similar to what was done with my EarthDancer would be superb but I CAN guarantee it would cost in excess of $500.00. I agree, we are a generous lot but I really don't want to try and scrounge up that kind of $. There was also a discussion about WHO would take care of the money end. Many people said they didn't want to be responsible for the "book-keeping" that would be necessary. THAT is another big reason for looking for alternate ways to finish the piece. I was gonna do the soft stuff gratis and Vic was either going to get the final mounting donated or she said she would pay whatever it would cost. The way people bitch and find fault with everything, I can just imagine what would happen if money were involved!!! Thank you -- NO -- I don't recommend THAT. And it wouldn't matter WHO was responsible -- we all have our factions and there *would* be someone who would get all pissed off about some aspect of the finishing even if it was all agreed upon ahead of time! If there were folks out there who DID NOT like the idea of using the fire damaged fabric as part of a soft finishing technique, they never said one word to me about it. It was MY idea in the first place and I repeatedly said that people should let me know if there were any objections. No one did so I assumed it was an IDEA that was still viable. I was throwing out ideas left and right and some were shot down and others were thought to be OK but needed further discussion. The fire damaged fabric idea was accepted as a *possible*. So -- you don't like my ideas, fine with MOI -- if there is no soft finishing to be done that's less work for MOI. Someone else can take care of the finishing. Regardless of WHAT any of us think, this *was* Victoria's brainchild. We have known all along that SHE would be the one to make a final decision after those involved (that means those who stitched AND those who donated stuff but did no stitching) had discussed finishing options. If Vic is serious about not wanting to be further involved, then I don't know who should be the one to take on the job of actually getting the piece mounted. I have acted as a sort of "gatekeper" just to keep names and stuff on track. Once the photos started appearing at the website and the History was written up, my job wasn't really necessary. Except, of course, for Vic asking me to post for info. So -- this boils down to everyone discussing what they want done with the finished piece and then electing someone to do that -- assuming Victoria is truly out of the picture. Before that decision is made, SOMEONE needs to contact Victoria and make sure that she is truly not interested in having anything further to do with the project. THAT should be a lot of fun -- LOL! OH and Dianne -- if you want to call me a liar, then just come right out and say that, OK? Saying this... Tia Mary wrote: > At the time, everyone liked the idea of including some "fire damaged" fabric **of the same type** as the Angel.< Dianne wrote: >That simply isn't true. Not everyone agreed about this. Some of us were just weary of the conversation and wanted to get started on the stitching and worry about the finishing later. ...< is the same as saying I told a falsehood -- a LIE. Be careful how you word things, OK? Saying you remember it differently is one thing but saying something another person said "simply isn't true" is calling that person a liar. I have no need to lie about any of this but I WILL agree that each and every one of us remembers ALL that has transpired in a different manner! CiaoMeow >^;;^<

Not being involved in the stitching, but having "known" Tia Mary for years, I truly trust her expertise. Now, TM, don't forget I have a checkbook to help out!!LOL

Gillian

Brenda Lewis wrote:

Yep. Because we wanted the process to go forward and were weary of discussing what to do at the "end". :-)

Yep, now's a good time to discuss this.

Just because I don't vocally participate doesn't mean I don't remember the written conversations. :-) Let's not get judgmental here.

Well, I'd be happy to take on that task. That's not a terribly difficult or time consuming endeavor. My worry is that there won't be enough and THEN what do we do?

I think Victoria has just stated she would get her matted and framed.

Oh, I think we - as adults - can handle it. :-)

That may or may not be true since we really didn't define it by concensus and decided to wait until it was close to the time to do something.

I have my opinion, but will go along with whatever the majority decide to do - even if I don't like it. That still leaves me free to call the idea nuts and that sentiment shouldn't offend anyone.

As I said, I think we were a bit weary at the time this was taking place and the concensus was: let's get stitching and worry about details later.

Nobody said it wasn't a viable option. I'm just voicing the opinion that I don't like the idea, and two others have chimed in to say they don't like it, either.

And that's what we're doing. Discussing.

I wouldn't dismiss Victoria's participation at this point.

No, it's saying that you may be remembering incorrectly or differently and stating the reason you may not have understood what was going on. After all, it's been two years. I'm not calling you a liar. I suppose we could dig out all those posts, but I remember it quite differently.

I won't go to all the trouble of quoting EVERYTHING that you or I wrote about this. No one wants to read it and it's a real P.I.T.A. -- I have better things to do with my time and I don't need to make any point. Except for the fact that you did basically accuse me of lying even if you didn't use those words. You didn't SAY I remembered differently than you, you said "That simply isn't true" in response to something I wrote. You didn't say it **might not be true** but that it wasn't true -- hence you accused me of lying. Regardless of this, I shan't continue THIS part of the discussion any further. If you want to continue feel free but you won't be getting any response from MOI. If you would like to be in charge of the final disposition of the Angel feel free but I DO recommend someone making sure that Victoria is truly out of the picture now. CiaoMeow >^;;^<

I believe it was Brenda Lewis who asked if anyone here could play around with their graphics program and give us a visual of this "soft finishing" concept. The way it conjures up in my mind is quite unsophisticated and demeaning to the stitching. I don't find any artful benefit to it at all.

I simply can't visualize it as Tia Mary is trying to explain carefully what she means. So, can anyone help with this "visualization?" I simply can't imagine this lovely piece being surrounded by something that is burned. While this may have an appeal for a painted art object, (I can conceptualize burnt parchment paper surrounding our Angel), I simply cannot imagine it for fabric.

Then again, I simply detest what people refer to as modern art wherein fibers are left ragged and torn. :-)

I also can't visualize this beautiful stitched piece hanging from an axe. It makes no sense, to me, to include an axe in this project. Weight is certainly of concern (anyone lift an axe recently?)

She's an Angel of Mercy (or of whatever) - and was designed because of

These thoughts are my opinions - as valid as anyone elses. They are meant to get the conversation going, since it won't be long, now.

I also have recently contacted a needlework shop that also frames professionally and I think $500 is a tad on the high side.

Dianne