Firehouse Angel Finishing, $$ Issues, etc.

I've read this newsgroup for years and years but seldom post. This topic has been interesting for the past 2 years.

My question is for anyone who cares to answer. If burned fabric is used, wouldn't that be apt to lead people viewing the angel to assume it was a rescued treasure from 9-11 or another disaster?? Isn't that a bit deceptive? It could start a whole new urban legend !! The amazing angel that survived disaster! Yes, everyone knows the story right now, but how about in 10 years?

I understand a placque is mentioned so maybe that would be clear enough, as long as it remained with the piece. Moni

When I mentioned that amount, it was in reference to the way that MLI had framed my EarthDancer. EarthDancer is HUGE -- just like the Angel

-- with a design size of just over 14" x 17". MLI had a 1/2" fillet frame around the design area with approx 2" of fabric showing all around. This means the fillet framed piece was about 19" x 23". Then there was a lovely mottled buckskin colored suede mat that was about 5" wide making the size of the piece 29" x 33". The outer frame was about

Despite signs of this thread turning nasty, I have to enter the debate. I was in on this from the start and was the second or third stitcher. Perhaps I was "absent that day" but I do not recall any real discussion on burned fabric. I don't like it; it sounds tacky and hokey. Nor do I like the axe touch, for the same reason.

At the risk of coming on totally negative, now that I know what Tia Mary means by soft finishing, I'm not too keen on that for this project. When I supplied extra fabric I thought it would be used for a padded effect or for adding a softening touch to the fabric and/or the angel herself. It sounds like the idea is to make the angel look like a survivor, which seems to me artificial and even offensive.

What on earth is wrong with a beautifully stitched work simply and tastefully framed, perhaps with a mat or perhaps without? The angel is lovely in herself and doesn't need to be tarted up.

May I suggest the stitchers themselves weigh in on what kind of finish they feel is appropriate? I have! And I apologize if I've hurt anyone's feelings.

Felice

I didn't stitch on her, so maybe this is none of my business, but could you finish her as a quilted wallhanging? You could suspend the wallhanging from an axe handle if one absolutely must be used.

Cris

Tia Mary wrote:

I wasn't in on this group but have read from post to post. I would say - STOP bickering about what to do with this beautiful project and give it to FDNY. I would SUGGEST to let the Fire Chief decide on what to do with that project and get it over with. So let's stop getting on each other's nerves and get on with your life. Everyone have problems of their own but this is a needlework newsgroup where we are suppose to be nice and get to know each other. Someday we might do a swap, round robin or something like that and inform the next person about it. This newsgroup is suppose to be "FRIENDLY". I don't like for anyone to be call names, hurting other people feelings but it's GOT to stop and start over NOW. By the way, my name is Marcie. I like to do crochet, embroidery, cross-stitch, scrapbooking, kid crafts (I have a

I'll put my 100 cents (worth WAY more that 2 cents!!) in on this issue. Normally I stay out of controversial issues. This was Victoria's idea, Victoria's chart, and Victoria's vision. Regardless of how ya'll feel about her, I refuse to be a part of excluding her from any framing decisions. I have her e-mail and will ask her how she feels. She shouldn't have veto power over any idea but she should be included in the decision making process. It's like taking credit at work for someone else's idea or project. It's just not the right thing to do.

It's only my opinion.

Janet Walker

I agree with you. Thank you for your input in this matter. It's reasonable and responsible, no matter how any of us might feel inside. :-)

Dianne

snipped-for-privacy@bellsouth.net wrote:

We're not bickering, we're deciding. Occasionally we misunderstand one another. But honest, we're not bickering. We tend to lay our cards on the table and others might not quite understand.

Well, that's not what this project is all about. And it's not likely that someone else would even know what to do about finishing (framing in some manner), nor have the funds to do it, which is our responsibility.

Oh, we occasionally have some doozies here, but basically we reach out to one another when it counts most.

We've had those here. Welcome to RCTN!

I've been on this newsgroup for at least ten years. You'll find all manner of discussions here. Most of us do more than one type of needlework. Occasionally (about once a year) we have a "thread" telling everyone our age, where we live, what we're working on.

I hope you post often. Dianne

Marcie,

You think this bickering is bad?? Actually there is a lot of different feelings behind the project, and personalities have come into play. HOWEVER, NEVER get near the Mayo v Miracle Whip, floss-lick or not, and a multitude of other wars. Forget those icky Peeps, that always starts an Easter war. Strangely enough we almost all remain friends, just like real life.

welcome aboard

Gillian

gundoc wrote:

Nope -- that was one of my first suggestions and it got a loud and resounding "NO WAY" from everyone WHO POSTED in response to the idea. I have to remember to add those two words -- WHO POSTED -- so that people are clear about what I am saying. CiaoMeow >^;;^<

Felice Friese wrote:

When the whole "soft finish" thing came under discussion, ANY mention of quilting was vetoed. I remember this distinctly because I had first suggested making some sort of border out of cloud fabric and then quilting the thing and making the wall hanging. Someone mentioned making the piece look as if it had been rescued by the firemen -- I have NO IDEA who that was so it could have been me, it could have been Vic, it could have been any one of us who was involved in the discussion. I said that I would need a piece of fabric to "play with" so that I could decide just *what* could and could not be done with the actual fabric the Angel was stitched on. I didn't want to "play" with the edges of the stitched fabric because if the group decided the Angel was to eventually be matted and framed, all of the excess might be needed. I said I would have to try and see if there was any way to make the piece look as if it had been burned *IF* that was what we would decide on. From your post, you apparently weren't aware that this was one of the ideas floating around. I certainly wouldn't have done anything like this until the group decided what was to be done. Just so you know, that piece of fabric is still sitting in my sewing room, folded and on a shelf by itself just waiting for a final decision to determine if it will be needed. Since it's blue (I.A.Y.P. on the color -- LOL) I certainly wouldn't use it for anything else so if it's not needed for the final finishing, I think you should have it back :-). Since I really don't like blue (I mean I *really* don't like blue

-- ask Janet), I wouldn't be at all surprised if I didn't tell you that any leftover fabric would be sent back to you anyway -- honest! CiaoMeow >^;;^<

I thought the burned fabric was to be some fabric that Tia Mary and I found after my house fire. However, that was in 2004 after the fire and I know I don't remember much that happened around that time.

Wow, 2 posts in one day from me - that is certainly a record. :-)

Janet

"Tia Mary" wrote: I said that I would need a piece of fabric to "play with" so that I could

Oh, Tia Mary, this isn't about some leftover fabric! Whatever is done with the angel, and whether or not the extra fabric is used, I don't want it back! If it's not used, why don't we give it to someone who needs stash replacement?

And please understand that I think your finishing work is quite lovely, but I think something more simple and traditional is right for the Angel.

Felice

Not to worry -- I **know** you aren't worried about the fabric I just wanted you to know that if it's not used, I will be happy to send it back to you. If you don't really want it, then I will send it to whomever is doing the Love In Stitches stuff :-))). As for the finishing, I honestly don't have a preference. The ideas I have been talking about were things that people who responded to the posts seemed to favor. I can see the Angel with the burned fabric edges and rather like the *contrast* between the burn and the elegance of the Angel. If the burned edge thing was a "go" I would prefer to see it in a large and properly ornate frame so as to further set off and high light the contrasts. I personally don't think the ordinary mat & frame thing is adequate for her. Unfortunately, I am pretty sure that anything that is really elegant and what *I* think is suitable will be wayyyyy to $$$$ :-(. CiaoMeow >^;;^<

I stitched on her as well (though not nearly as much as I had wanted to) and have to admit that this suggestion from Cris (quilted wall hanging from an axe handle) is the one that appeals to me the most so far. I couldn't visualize the concept of using singed fabric to mount her, but trust TiaMary and was willing to go with her vision. I'm sure it would turn out beautifully. I do, however, think that the suggestion of a wall hanging done from an axe might be a good compromise for most. It is finished in a 'somewhat' traditional manner, and still incorporates the idea of the used axe handle, which I did like. Anyone else like this suggestion? Thanks, Heather

Well, me being one of the stitchers, there are a couple of things I'd like to bring up.

#1. About the axe idea....someone mentioned the weight of it. I had thought about that, too. I think it would be fairly difficult to hang or mount (in any manner) the picture with the axe, considering the weight of it (if it's a full-sized axe), not to mention how to balance the thing since all the weight's on one end. And the size of the finished frame, *if* it were "boxed in", that is (I don't know if it was ever considered whether or not to have her under glass); axes are like 3 feet long.

So, I had this thought that I'll put out there: what if we mounted her with a picture of the Twin Towers and/or the other plane crashes? It would be much easier to come up with a suitable frame and you wouldn't have to worry about the above points. It would also get the idea across about it being a memorial, I think.

#2. Since some people seem to be, uuum, "sensitive" shall we say, to having non-participants making suggestions on how it should be finished, should we take this to email to just the participants? After decisions are made it could then be posted to the group. #2a. Pros: It would keep the project "proprietary" to those involved, since they have a more vested interest in how it's finished and: Victoria would be kept up-to-date without having to come to the group (see #3 below), which she obviously doesn't want to do anymore #2b. Con: It would eliminate fresh ideas from the populace of the group (you know....a thousand minds are better than one!), which have been known to be outstanding in the past! :)

#3. We should definitely keep Victoria in the loop. It's been her "baby" since the beginning and it would be cruel to exclude her now, IMHO.

Anyway, those are my thoughts for your consideration.......

Joan

My sentiments, exactly. Not to mention it would detract from the Angel herself.

The "Angel" is enough. If we were painting a mural, we could incorporate more "things" in it. But this is a pre-designed needlework of art and it doesn't need anything else to convey a message. The "Angel" is a message in itself, lest we have forgotten why this design was made.

If you haven't been to the website recently, here's the background, for which I have permission to quote:

"If I died tomorrow and this was the last Angel ever created under my hand, I would be at peace. She was begun 3 years ago [Ed. 1998] and was just another little face and last summer she became an Angel. We couldn't understand her meaning and what she was beseeching heaven for? When the towers fell, the models were 80% finished, so we all rushed her along because now we could see what she was trying to tell us. Is she searching into the heavens for an answer? Her time is now. Her face searches the morning light for relief from her darkness. Each person who has seen or worked on her claims she is the perfect Angel for us all. Her golden wings tipped with the white of morning light and her bluest gown trailing into the night. Her hands uplifted, one hand is empty and open and her right is full receiving the light. Everyone from the stitchers to the proofers to the framers to the mailers to the printers to my wonderful staff has worked at a breakneck speed because she is the one. I need medals for all of her heroes. She was to be a December release and now she will be in the mail on October 24."

Marilyn Levitt-Imblum September 2001

I agree. I'll let all of us involved decide how best to do that. We must remember that all of us get "testy" at times. Often, that isn't "who" we are, but a symbol of where we are at a given moment in time. This project is too important to allow "personality" to get in the way.

Dianne

I have "spoken" to Victoria (as promised). She has given permission to use her post but I would rather say it in my own way. She is still willing to be responsible for the framing without any donations. She thinks we should have triple mats, maybe with cutouts, a beautiful frame, and a brass plaque with a dedication.

Taking this discussion to a smaller group would probably be a good idea. Someone from that group could then report back to RCTN.

How did a project with such good intentions turn so nasty?? Can we get back to the main mission - to honor people who are heroes and to remember those who died?

I agree that discussions are good but when it becomes so mean-spirited, it's time for the participants in that thread to take a breather and just let it go. But then I'm very non-confrontational (just ask Tia Mary).

Once again, it's just my opinion and some of Victoria's.

Janet