OT: Thought our members might be interested

Remember several months past when a first-time middle eastern poster questioned where he might go to get the fabric used by our military? He was treated to a courteous brush-off by our group. So I wasn't shocked this morning when I read the following Associated Press news article. It seems someone was successful in getting even more than fabric. (Also, the copiers must have some big financial bucks to afford black sport utility vehicles and plenty of munitions.) Anyway, as I read the article, the coincidence struck me. Sharon

Monday, Jan. 22, 2007 9:21 a.m. EST

Iraqi Attackers Wore U.S. Uniforms

Iraqi gunmen used classic sleight of hand as they ambushed and killed five U.S. soldiers at a security meeting in the Shiite holy city of Karbala.

Dressed in military uniforms and driving black sport utility vehicles commonly used by official U.S. convoys and foreign dignitaries, the militants were waved through a police checkpoint at the outskirts of the city Saturday. Police even radioed ahead to the provincial governor's office to tell the guards to expect visitors.

The insurgents then broke into the building using percussion bombs and killed five U.S. soldiers and captured two others, said provincial governor Akeel al-Khazaali. Iraqi troops later found one of the SUVs with three dead bodies dressed in military uniforms, he said.

Lt. Col. Christopher Garver, a U.S. military spokesman, denied any Americans were captured and said all "were accounted for after the action." The five killed in Karbala were among at least 25 American deaths in Iraq on Saturday - the third-deadliest single day for U.S. troops since the war began in March 2003. That total included four soldiers and a Marine killed in violent Anbar province and one soldier killed in a roadside bombing northeast of Baghdad, whose deaths were announced Sunday.

Two Iraqi government officials, meanwhile, said Sunday that Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki had decided to drop his protection of the feared Shiite militia of an anti-American cleric after U.S. intelligence reports convinced him the armed group was deeply infiltrated by death squads whose actions were isolating him in the Arab world and among moderate political forces at home.

In a desperate bid to fend off a feared all-out American offensive, the cleric, Muqtada al-Sadr, last Friday ordered the 30 lawmakers and six Cabinet ministers under his control to end their nearly two-month boycott of the government.

Al-Sadr had already ordered his militia fighters not to display their weapons. They have not, however, ceded control of the formerly mixed neighborhoods they have captured, killing Sunnis or forcing them to abandon their homes and businesses.

Al-Maliki's turnaround on the Mahdi Army was puzzling because as late as Oct. 31, he had intervened to end a U.S. blockade of Sadr City, the northeast Shiite enclave in Baghdad that is headquarters to the militia. It is held responsible for much of the sectarian bloodshed that has turned the capital into a battle zone over the past year.

Sometime between then and Nov. 30, when the prime minister met President Bush, al-Maliki was convinced of the truth of American intelligence reports, two government officials said.

"Al-Maliki realized he couldn't keep defending the Mahdi Army because of the information and evidence that the armed group was taking part in the killings, displacing people and violating the state's sovereignty," said one government official.

"The Americans don't act on rumors but on accurate intelligence. There are many intelligence agencies acting on the ground, and they know what's going on," said the second official, confirming the Americans had given al-Maliki overwhelming evidence about the Mahdi Army's deep involvement in the sectarian slaughter.

© 2007 Associated Press.
Reply to
Seeker
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You mean this character that posted on November 11, 2006???

Hello. I am looking for U.S.A. military uniform and camouflage fabrics.

The information that I needed fabric constructions, dyeing and finishing methods. Especially wool/blends uniforms (black, khaki, dark navy..eg) and camouflage fabric patterns and fabric detail informations

for each patterns. If anybody can help me I will be really pleased. It is very difficult to find like these informations. It is also possible contact adresses of fabric manufacturers which produce fabrics for USA army. If you want to contact with my please send me email to following adress. snipped-for-privacy@guney.com

best regards Turgay KARAGOMLEK

Reply to
itsjoannotjoann

Hmmm...sorry I don't see any similarities at all....must be my day to be 'thick.' LOL

-Irene

-------------- You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough.=20

--Mae West=20

--------------

Reply to
IMS

Naw me either. I do remember my Mum doing up German uniforms during WWII for the Allied troops to infiltrate German camps. We got to sew the buttons on. She was given material and patterns by the British army. Some of those ventures were very successful in terminating the lives of many German soldiers. Unfortunately most of them were very young boys according to my Dad. Was sucks, no matter who is involved.

Reply to
FAE

I have no idea what Fae's post has to do with this discussion. But you can search back to November 11 and see the whole thread when this character from Turkey wanted material sources for U.S. army uniforms. He wanted someone to search out the sources and tell him so he could buy/copy the material. Then a few days ago soldiers were killed by terrorists dressed as U.S. soldiers and driving black vehicles. If y'all can't see any similarity in that, something is wrong. Is everyone's memory that short to forget the posts from this person???????????

Reply to
itsjoannotjoann

But you

I was wondering back then if I would be going overboard reporting this person to some kind of federal authority. Should we now? Is there anything the pros can determine from these posts? Location origin? Person(s)? AK in PA

Reply to
AK&DStrohl

I saw the posts, and still do not see any correlation between those posts and the war in Iraq or the counter attack. So some guy was looking for material, maybe he was trying to do repairs to support himself, do you honesty think that anyone who was going to execute a counter attack on the US military would ask such a question here???? I cannot believe that they could be that stupid, besides you can buy perfectly good uniforms at any surplus store in North America, Europe or the UK-----Loads of them, complete and from the lowest rank to the highest, and far cheaper than buying fabric and making them. The cars are no problem either, as they are shipped by the container load from the US to buyers in the East. Yes some are stolen but most are brand new from the dealer. Such thinking as seeing something nefarious in every thing is what has created this state of fear in the first place. Seeing Commies or terrorists in every situation is ridiculous.

Whether they were dressed like US soldiers or not, it is a war. As for the label Terrorist, well if you live anywhere in the middle east then everyone in the west is a Terrorist. It is a common practice in a war to dress up as the other side to cause damage. The US did it, and so does every other nation when their country's are at war. Perception is everything. War still sucks and always will. No one wins, whether its the fight for oil or religion --- no one wins, you fight till there are no more bodies to throw at each other of someone comes up with a bigger bomb than you have.

I have family in uniform in Iraq so do not bother to flame me. They,

3 boys and a girl have no idea what they are doing there either but do not believe that throwing more bodies at the people defending their country is going to do any good. Is your memory so short that you do not remember all the other no win situation conflicts that have killed our kids?

As a complete aside, there is a group here who have donated 150 treadle and hand crank sewing machines to a group in Afghanistan. These men are currently doing much needed equipment repairs for the forces over there and being paid for it. They use the money to buy food and materials to repair their bombed out homes. It is all they have left.

Reply to
FAE

between > >those

First, I wasn't flaming you.

Second, get a world map and take a look at it if you don't see any correlation between Iraq, Iran, Turkey, etc.

Actually, it wouldn't surprise me at all.

< < < Evidently he didn't know that or he wouldn't have come here to ask for sources of U.S. military materials. Even when he was given possible contacts he didn't want to do that, he wanted us to get the information for him.

Nothing was mentioned about the cars. We were/are talking about uniforms.

I don't think anyone here was disputing it's a war and there are terrorists.

I think most everyone has family in the military, including yours truly, who's relative has already been over there twice, wounded, and will go back soon. If your relatives have no idea why they are there, why are they in the military??

Rest of rant snipped.

Reply to
itsjoannotjoann

Same here...you said it well.

-Irene

-------------- You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough.=20

--Mae West=20

--------------

Reply to
IMS

Thanks Irene. I guess I am too old to be worried about anything but seeing my grand kids again, who by the way joined the military, and have served in 2 middle east wars, to defend their home turf, not someone else's and certainly not over oil. My granddaughter is on her

3 tour this time, and says that what they face is much worse than anything you see on TV or read in the papers. They are literally hated, even by the people they are supposed to be defending. There is no respect for the US military, none, and that is what is the most terrify thing of all. She had no choice but to go, she is following orders. Hopefully her next deployment will be Japan then she will complete her librarian course and be out for good. This of course is IF she is allowed to come home, many leaves and returns are being cancelled due to lack of recruitments. We will be forever fearful if this is allowed to continue. We are being manipulated and made to believe things that are just not fact. Are you old enough to remember the "everyone is a Commie" days? Black times indeed where many military personnel sat underground with their finger on a button. Thank goodness no one actually pushed them. I guess what irks me the most is can you imagine the kind of health care or educational help that all this money would provide to people in our own country?

I forwarded the posts about the guy in Turkey to our local machine collection group. No one saw anything alarming in the post, but they did figure that others would. Anyway the machines are doing what they were sent there for. We also packed a lot of things like grommets, heavy duty threads, webbing and tent materials, along with the fabric recommend by the people we talked to. The military pays them to do the repairs as our troops do not have the facilities to do them and from reports sent back here they are very pleased with the workers. As I believe your one of our old Singer lovers, I wanted to tell you that we sent over an excellent RCAF decaled Singer machine that was adapted to a hand crank. Wonder what the receivers at the camp thought of that...........

Reply to
FAE

Whether they were asking in the commission of such an attack, we're unlikely ever to know. :-(

*Never* underestimate the stupidity of people, either those asked the question, or those who didn't think 'That's an add sort of question to be asking'.

In the UK we are presently having the trial of some alleged terrorists buying *hundreds* of litres of hydrogen peroxide from various hair dressing suppliers. I'd like to think someone, somewhere thought 'That's one hell of a lot of bleach for anyone to be buying', and did something about it.

No, it's a sign of the times in which we live, sadly exacerbated by the almost unfettered media coverage we enjoy in the west.

And one where 'the other side' don't play by the rules.

As

Yes, but this is a war that everybody is involved with. How governments sourced uniforms of the enemy in the past was outside the knowledge of the ordinary person in the street. That may not be the case now, even if you don't immediately realise it.

That request *may* have been perfectly innocent, it may not have been. You won't know, I won't know, but someone somewhere will have a lot more pieces of the jigsaw and be in a better position to make a value judgement than either you or me.

Merely shrugging your shoulders and saying

is effectively saying 'It's none of my business'.

Yes, I don't think anyone in the west would argue those points - except the terrorists don't quite share the same POV. That is the problem we are currently facing.

No, this isn't a flame, nor is it a criticism of anyone who *did* think 'That's odd' but did nothing about it.

It is a challenge to the perceptions many hold about the world we live in, that they can't or don't want to be involved with the fighting that is going on in the Middle East. We all need to be aware that we might, just maybe have a vital piece of information, and we need to do something about it.

We don't live our lives in isolation, and if someone thinks 'That's an odd thing to have happened', and does something about it, that's all to the good, even if that tiny snippet of information has no relevance in the wider picture.

Perhaps the only good thing about it is that I'd be pretty certain there are intelligence gatherers who are monitoring what gets posted anyway by way of keyword searches and the like, so chances are the post was noted anyway.

Reply to
The Wanderer

Despite that there is a lot of fear mongering going on and despite that the White House told a series of big fat lies in order to attack Iraq as part of the "War on Terror", it is still prudent to be cautious when giving information about our military to anyone, especially someone claiming to be from a foreign country with more than a casual interest in Iraq. Your assumption that people would not use the internet to gain information is absurd given the many reports that terrorists use internet chat rooms and other internet communication formats to aid in planning their attacks and raising funds. Even if it seems somehow unlikely, we should err on the side of caution, especially when we have so many men and women coming home in body bags or with missing limbs.

It doesn't take much common sense to realize that anyone on the internet asking for info about the current US military should be viewed with the utmost caution.

Reply to
Phaedrine

I remember it well, and I also can reach far enough back in my memory to know of other incidents such as the one that happened a few days ago in Iraq. Emily

Reply to
CypSew

Like people posting to a news group about sewing would be privy to confidential information about any military operation? And unwise enough to post about it?

This atmosphere of fear led to the arrest in the U.K. of some men buying cell phones, IIRC. While those who arrested them thought they were for nefarious purposes, it turned out the men had a healthy resale business going on in their third world country. We can't even speculate on what evidence there is about people being held without charges being brought, or even told why they are being held.

Having lived through the McCarthy era, this entire process makes me nervous as hell.

But it has nothing to do with sewing.

Reply to
Pogonip

My point, and I believe I stated it clearly, is that a guy claiming he is from Turkey, wanting specifications for US military uniforms, posting to any internet newsgroup should be viewed with skepticism. Surely you don't take issue with that? Would you not agree that there are appropriate channels for obtaining such information?

When people are kept in a constant state of fear, it is far easier to control them. And that does seem to be the modus operandi for this current US Administration. While I wholeheartedly agree that we should not conduct our daily lives from a posture of fear, it seems that common sense and prudence should also play a role. And that's all I'm saying.

Reply to
Phaedrine

? And unwise

You bet, he/she is probably a troll watching you guys get all worked up over this.

Reply to
small change

I feels like we have lived in fear of one or another nation since the end of WWII. What a horrible way to live, so I choose not to. We as a nation have suffered enough from this fear, its time to come home and heal. The only threat to our freedom is ourselves. Its the wire tapping that really makes my blood boil. I thought we had moved beyond spying on our own.

As for false accusations there is a case currently in the Canadian courts about a man, falsely accused, deported to Syria by the US, based on false information provided by the Canadian federal police force. Once the mistake was discovered the RCMP tried to correct it but the US had already acted. Mr. Arar was jailed in Syria, tortured and then his release was obtained some time later by Canadians. Canada did a through investigation and found nothing to warrant his being labeled as a threat. This was presented to the US authorities on many occasions since then, but they still refuse to remove this young man from the "watch" list. It also reminds me of the "Black List" where so many lives were ruined on 'suspicion' during McCarthy's reign.

Reply to
FAE

Someone in power has a hearing problem. They heard "Power to the People" as "Power to the Peephole."

Reply to
Pogonip

Small change hits the nail on the head again! JPBill

Reply to
w.boyce

A few here could stand to learn how to track down IP addresses and get an idea from what country some of these "trolls" are posting from. Not completely foolproof, but gives you a darn good idea. Another good thing to learn is how to track down domain names when the spammers pay us a visit and we know who to contact from this information.

Reply to
itsjoannotjoann

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