Bernina fraud on eBay

You can't possibly know it's legitimate unless you have personal knowledge of the aforementioned ad. And in that instance, I'd say you have a vested interest.

Irrelevant. My point stands. A buyer should only trust the word of an independent, credible third party as to the status of the machine, preferably an authorized Bernina technician who has no vested interest in the sale outcome or a Bernina dealer who is offering a warranty.

Caveat emptor.

Thanks Rebecca, this is very good advice. I know several people who sell (and buy) machines on eBay, and it's still true that *most* people are honest. The trouble is that the few who aren't make such an impression that people tend to forget about the good ones.

Your description of taken over accounts is excellent, I would just add that sometimes they are also able to take over the email account of the real eBayer. It's so important to have different passwords for different accounts.

For eBay, I pay *only* with Paypal, and fund the payment with a credit card. As you say, that gives maximum security - either Paypal or my credit card company will protect me from loss.

But using your head is also good. As usual. ;-) If a deal is too good to be true, then it most likely is.

I know that Phaedrine wants to be helpful here, but some of the biggest crooks I've run into have been sewing machine dealers. There's a few in every pot, I guess.

I wouldn't buy anything from this particular seller. The usenet rules are no ads. This seller has continually disregarded the rules. They don't mean anything to her. So why would you buy something from someone that thinks rules aren't for them? Too many really good sellers around to put up with the attitude IMO. Buyer beware. I'd say buyer stay away in this case. I buy a lot of stuff on Ebay and steering clear of this type a buyer has worked pretty well.

sewf> Yes, it's unfortunate but true that Berninas and other high end sewing

OK, I'm confused. Are you referring to the poster "Jen"? Because if you are, I'm really confused. I had wondered why this person posts different auctions - the only thing they seem to have in common is that they are embroidery-sewing machines. They have different sellers, different locations, different machines - the only common thread I can see is that "Jen" posts the url.

Another problem is that this Jan is posting through an anonymizer, which does not speak well for his/her intentions.

For now, I choose to ignore any posts from Jan. Heaven knows, I'm not shopping for any more machines!!!!!!

In addition to which, the Terms of Service of eBay specifically prohibit spamming Usenet. Unfortunately, eBay does not provide an "abuse@" address for reporting inappropriate ads.

Beverly

The problem there is that Trust & Safety chastises the seller in the auction and there is no apparent connection between this Jan and these various sellers. Even if there were, the headers in the posts are not a registered eBay address and a connection would be impossible to prove.

So one of two things would happen. A rushed CSR could put a strike against the seller, when it wasn't the seller doing the spamming; or absolutely nothing would be done beyond sending a boiler-plate message that "we are investigating but due to privacy restrictions cannot inform you of any action which may or may not be taken."

English BBQ'D Troll

First polish up your BBQ, removing all rust and flood damage, and don your special shoes

Lie in wait in the bottom of your rubber boat with a large net, and when the troll floats past on its log, snag it. Remember to rescue the Bernina and send it to the OSMG for TLC.

Fire up the BBQ while you scrub the troll and tie it to a spit. Make lots of salad... Put some rolls in the oven to bake.

When it rains, go inside and heat up that vat of chicken soup you made yesterday and serve it with the rolls. When the floods finally subside, you'll find the clean-up crews have removed the troll along with all the debris.

Hi, Phaedrine.

I didn't claim to KNOW the auction was legitimate; I only said it appeared legit to me -- in my opinion. I have no idea who this seller is! My only interest in posting was to defend legitimate eBay sellers and give would-be buyers some safety tips for online auctions. Actually, I had not realized that this person lists lots of machines and sends anonymous links to all the newsgroups about them -- in that case, then, I agree it's a red flag and I would stay away from that auction too.

But you stated:

Okay, so where are we supposed to find this neutral authorized Bernina technician who has no vested interest in the transaction? If you bring a used machine in for your local dealer's tech to look at, and tech works for the local dealer (even if he is an independent contractor, he still gets his work through the dealer and is somewhat beholden to him or her). So if the dealer is selling the used machine and their tech is checking it out for you, that tech is not an independant third party. If you take the used machine to a different Bernina dealer and ask THEIR tech to look at the machine, it's in THEIR interest to dissuade you from buying the used machine so you'll buy a new one from them instead. And incidentally, I know of several people ranting and raving across the internet because they bought brand new machines from authorized dealers that were lemons and had to go back over and over again for service and still don't work right! And buying the machine from an authorized dealer who is offering a warranty isn't that much protection anyway -- haven't you noticed the tendency for things not to break until right AFTER the warranty expires? Even on a new Bernina you only get 1 year electrical parts and 5 years mechanical parts. If I'm spending thousands of dollars on a machine, it had better last longer than 5 yrs! So when you're buying a new machine at full price, you're betting on a long shot -- that something serious will go wrong with it immediately that will cost thousands of dollars to fix. Because if it DOESN'T break during the warranty period, you paid thousands of dollars more than you had to when you could have gotten a used machine

My experience was that I went into my local Bernina dealer asking to trade in my Artista 180E for a new 200E a few years ago, and they told me that they don't take trade-ins and suggest that people sell their machines on eBay instead. So that's what I did -- I sold that machine, and the person who bought it from me got no warranty but they got it at less than half what I had paid for it new just a few years before. I would have preferred to trade it in at the dealer and not have to spend all that time writing up the description, doing all the photos, answering questions, shipping, etc., but I didn't have that option and neither does anyone else around here unless our dealer changes her policy. Personally, I think she's being stupid -- I had never even thought of buying or selling a sewing machine on eBay before she sent me there, and I ended up buying my 200E used on eBay so she lost the sale. If I was a dealer I would accept trade ins and resell them with a limited warranty or rent them out as spares when people have their machines in for service, or for people just wanting to learn sewing who need some encouragement to take the plunge and purchase a machine, but that's neither here nor there.

Whether you buy a new or used machine, there is always the possibility that something will go wrong. The only way to

The fact remains that advertising on this board is forbidden. Therefore, I refuse to buy anything from those who come here purely to advertise rather than to discuss.

Olwyn Mary in New Orleans.

No, but they have a web page to use:

Better the question: Why on earth would any sane person with an ounce of grey matter buy a _used_ machine, that is a relatively new model that retails for a minimum of $8000, from a total stranger on the internet w/o any guarantee or certification as to the machine's status? Come on... we're not talking about a $100 item here. The issue here is a Bernina 200e/730--- not a Singer "Simple". It is an ethical seller's responsibility to furnish such an honest report. It's done all the time in the art world and other venues. And it's done on eBay too by ethical sellers. EBay need not be a total crap shoot.

For spam, expand the headers on the post, copy and paste the entire message including header into an email and send to snipped-for-privacy@ebay.com.

For "phish" the process is slightly different. In that case, expand the headers and *forward* the entire message including header to snipped-for-privacy@ebay.com.

Spam posted on Usenet *is* a violation of eBay policy, and reported incidents will be addressed.

>

Loooove the shoes. Come to think of it, the only way I could wear high-heeled shoes anymore would be underwater...

Now, for the troll. Would you use a garlic rub?

I just noticed something a little strange about the "Jan" spams: in every case I checked, the *seller* is different. Not only a different name, but a different location. Makes me wonder if someone is pulling a "Joe job" on the competition.

EBay security will be able to look at the actual seller(s)' account(s) to determine if these are all sent by one seller under multiple nyms or what, so I hope everyone is reporting

*all* of them.

Beverly

That's solid reasoning, Olwyn Mary. But what if Jan is a competitor? What if he/she comes here and lists only auctions of other sellers, making sure that those of us who feel this way will not be bidding on those listings? These little notes are showing up in a lot of the groups on my subscription list, and must be reaching a fair number of people who sew, have sewing machines, and might be in the market for additional machines. Nifty way to cut down on a competitor's pool of potential bidders.

Interesting hypothesis.. I can see how it could be done, and I suppose that there are some sellers on eBay who are cut-throat enough to try it....

Personally, I buy on eBay all the time, including TOL sewing/embroidery machines.. In my opinion, you have to be careful, and follow the simple rules that sewfine explained previously.. Yes, there are some real stinkers who are engaging in fraud on eBay, but they are not the majority of eBay users. I would not have my embroidery machine if it was not for eBay, as I consider it a luxury-luxury, and the senior level machines are simply more money than I am willing to spend brand new.

When I get another embroidery mach>That's solid reasoning, Olwyn Mary. But what if Jan is a competitor?

I have to agree with you. eBay is nothing more than individuals (and companies) listing and selling direct to the buyer. If you exercise caution, and I recommend using Paypal and funding the payment with a credit card, you can do very well. One of my embroidery machines came from eBay - I got a really great deal, and the seller got rid of a system she had outgrown and got some cash in return. A win-win situation. I have been selling and buying on eBay since 1996, and I think it's absolutely great.