Another long & confused musing

Recently, I was reduced to watching a TV program, "Antiques Roadshow". No Leif, I was _not the main character! Anyway, a higher value was placed on objects that were handmade by recognizable craftsmen who used crude tools and local materials. Granted that some of the most valuable items were ornate and made of expensive and exotic materials. Also true, these objects were considered as antiques and not judged against the art/craft/whatever of today. Nevertheless, I wonder if there is any message for today's turners, whether hobbyists, tradesmen or artists.

If an original, exquisite near perfect bowl could be made and finished on a machine and signed by the programmer, would it still be less worthy than a copy of it handturned and signed? I leave the answer and explanation to you. It seems the less an object is made by using controlled machines and the assistance of sophisticated tooling the higher the value placed on it by the cognoscenti. Turners have access to threading devices, specialized kit for hollowing, ornamental equipment, lasers and microwaves. Today's catalogs are full of turning aids and no telling what will be offered for sale tomorrow. There's no halting progress, but is there a dividing line drawn somewhere between holding a gouge on a handrest and programming a CNC? If so, who drew it and where is it drawn? Maybe it moves around according to the state of the art and our need to return to simple things. Maybe I'm a nut in COC clothing! I know that there a few professional turners remaining who use a pole lathe and a few others that turn treen and simple things for a living. In the years to come will their work be the leading actors on the TV Antiques Road Show? Will there even be TV (or hand turning for that matter) in 2050? I'll never know, but I hope you guys will post your opinions, positive or negative, now. An orphan musing is a sad thing. :(

Just musing on a rainy Sunday afternoon. Arch

Fortiter,

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Arch
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Arch, I don't believe I have seen a orphan musing yet. But who is it to really say if a turned piece of 50 or 100 years ago is anything other antique just because of age, therefor worth a lot of $, when one turned buy a woodworker for the sheer pleasure, of the same quality or better, is worth less. I think worth should also consider sentiment to the owner and or buyer.

As for stuff done one a CNC, yes it may be well made, but where is the craftsmanship of producing the piece? You could say the craftsmanship is in the design of the piece but designers can and do produce beautiful work (concept, drawings, etc.) but how many produce the finished product with there own hands as well?

If this missed the meat of your musing, hopefully it snicked a corner.

James

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Arch wrote:

Reply to
James

Yep, Radziwill, Ruczinsky, Dobrowolski....

Reply to
George

IMO, doubtful. I find it hard to envision that piees of moderate economic value today (say a nicely made salad bowl by a "no name recognition turner" - like me for example) is somehow going to jump past an Ellsworth fifty years down the line. And wasn't Antiques Roadshow the program that NPR reported on a few years ago that was somehow hoking up values to get attention for their "expert appraisers" ?

Kip Powers Rogers, AR

Reply to
Kip055

Arch,

I use some the new-fangled aids in hollowing. The difference between what I (we?) do, and CNC, is that I define the outside of the hollow form by hand and eye, then hollow to reach a desired thickness. The shape, curves, and texture of each bowl is unique - I can't get two exactly alike, even if I try. The shape in CNC is drawn or copied, and each will turn out exactly the same (to the tolerence of the machine). Also, once the shape is drawn, and the code sent to the machine, the CNC will craft what is drawn - no editing in progress. The CNC process assumes that the design is complete before the turning begins. As I turn, I look at curves and shapes, and refine as I go. Would this piece look better with a wider rim? Would a contrasting neck set off the grain better? I like to think that some of the value in a hand-turned piece, even those complemented by new technology, comes from the turner's interaction with each piece of wood.

My 2 cents.

Ron Williams Minn-Dak Woodturners Moorhead, MN

Reply to
Ron Williams

Hi Arch

Arch maybe I'm just cynical but, I thought the antiques road show was just a way for the insurance industry to get more money out of every owner of old stuff. then again maybe i'm wrong. But Two hundred and forty thousand Dollars for a platter and nobody cared who made it, just who's face is on it, o well, if I had it I would be counting dollars, you can have the platter.

Reply to
Leo Van Der Loo

Thanks to each of you for adopting the orphan. I do love good conversation and you all make valid points. I agree about the demerits of the TV program and only used it for a can opener. James, not a problem, often I don't know what I mean and there may not be any meat in the can.

I'm CNC illiterate but I wonder why one couldn't be manipulated on line by a programmer who is also an artist/craftsman (played like a piano) to produce a unique bowl. Jim Gaydos? Arch

Fortiter,

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Reply to
Arch

You know, I really don't care if my stuff if worth thousands of dollars 50 years from now. I'll be dead, so that is someone else's problem or benefit. I just can't worry about my legacy in that regard.

As long as I make my buck now, I'm happy.

Reply to
Joe Fleming

Oh, Joe! That is so instant gratification like! Think of the generations unborn turners who will appreciate your work! The moment is important, of course,but remember it will be the past in the future!*G*

Reply to
Leif Thorvaldson

Hi, Last Thursday, the 15th, I was in downtown Jackson Hole, Wy. I was walking and I passed a small park with a chuckwagon type of trailer in it, that was actually a traveling display stand. It was a display of about two hundred bowls. All sizes. Little six inch diameter and BIG ones about 20 inches in diameter. As a turner(somewhat) I enjoyed looking at the projects and I thought they were really nice. The turner was a gentleman named "Pappy Putz" at least that was what was on his card. The bowls were, I thought, quite expensive. The big ones were priced between 500 and a thousand. The small ones were between 50 and say 500. There were lots of tourists walking by (myself included) and I watched a young couple talk Pappy from 85 down to 60 and they walked away quite happy, with their bowl. As I said the bowls were really quite nice, a lot nicer than I can do. I have no doubt that if I consider his time and the raw stock (none of these were glue ups and there was not a crack in the lot) the prices he was asking was not a bit out of line. I just can't believe that people would appreciate the workmanship and pay the price. But then I watched the encounter that I described above. A few years ago I sold a small glued up bowl for $5.50 and I thought wow! The man was getting ready, I think, to move to another town. He said he spent his winters turning in Montana and then the warmer months moving around selling the items. I went on my way not without a certain twinge of envy. Like the subject line said just musing. Bob in 29 Palms CA

Reply to
Bob Itnyre

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