Anyone turned Ironwood?

Prometheus wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Two thoughts:

A handplane might help you see what the wood looks like under the whitewash. Don't use your best one, BTW.

And 'ironwood' is a phrase that covers a lot of (sometimes) pretty different species. Rather like 'oak'.

I'd probably drag some home, although probably a smaller piece, and have a whack at it, before loading up the trailer.

Patriarch

I don't know where you are, but unless you are somewhere in the soutwest area of the US, it probably isn't actually "Ironwood" but more likely just harder than hell.

Real ironwood is almost never that big because it is a desert tree, and even a large tree from many years ago would have trouble supplying a beam of the porportion you describe.

On the other hand, if it is indeed the real thing, you should get all you can haul as it is quite valuable, and you should be able to get a fortune for it if you can mill it into pen blanks, handle blanks, and carving blanks.

The stuff I see (only in small pieces) is hard, dense, and slightly oily. However, it is a favorite wood of the traditional Mexican craftsmen ( I live in San Antonio, Texas) to carve as it carves quite well with little splintering.

I couldn't even guess what a log that size might weigh... 200 pounds? More?

I like Patriarch's idea. Take a piece home, chuck it up and cut into it and see what you have. If you like it, grab it.

Robert

Hi Prometheus

The name Iron wood is used for all kinds of wood worldwide, tropical and and north temperate zone trees.

In N America the ironwood name for trees is used for the Hophornbeam, (Ostrya Virginiana), grows from E Texas up to SE Manitoba and east of that from N Florida to Cape Breton Island, sizes op to 50' tall and 12" D, occasionally larger.

The name is also used sometimes for the American Hornbeam (Carpinus Caroliniana) also called (Blue Beech) they are usually smaller and crooked trees up to 30' tall and 12"D

I have turned some Hornbeam and Hophorn beam, however it was green wood, not 100 Year old and dry, still have some in the shop somewhere.

Mine was dense wood, kind of plain and light colored, and it turned very well, real nice for tool handles and small stuff like whistles tops etc., my wood was no larger than 4" or 5"D, it takes a very long time up here to grow a hophornbeam tree to a bigger size.

It is a very high quality wood IMO and I would certainly haul it home and use it.

Have fun and take care Leo Van Der Loo

That would be the one, most likely. Now if you order Pao Ferro (any guesses?) you'll have something else.

Tree grows slowly even when it's not in the understory, so it'll be pretty close-grained. If a jobber drops an ironwood log of sufficient size, it normally goes out with the hard maple, which it closely resembles after sawing. Just tighter and harder.

My splitting maul and sledge have ironwood handles, and it makes a great replacement handle for a wheelbarrow. Unless you want to turn it for sentimental reasons, it won't turn you on as much by difference as off by toughness.

I looked into the word "Ironwood" a few years ago out of curiosity and spent a few hours googling, there are at least five species in the US with that name, and I found about 35 trees worldwide that go by that name.

At any rate, be prepared to have to re-grind your tools. I tried turning some dry eucalyptus once and the chips felt like BB's on my skin, and the tool edge was junk after just a few minutes. Your beams may be similar, but it's probably really beautiful.

This shows what most of us have learned, that tree names in the US are often wrong or confusing. European settlers misnamed trees because they reminded them of a tree 'back home.' Now we have a mess of names. Maples that aren't maples. Cedars that aren't cedars. And colloquial names like 'dunno what it is, but its as hard as iron..."

A good resource to cut through this mish-mash is the Audubon Society Field Guide to North American Trees.

Dan

I recently got a bunch of pen blanks that are "desert ironwood".. maybe not the same??

Anyway, it turned nicely.. I really prefer a harder surface because it holds a shape nicely.. good character and surprising color inside..

AFAIK, it's also a fairly expensive wood in turning blank form..

Mac

ADDED CAUTION: Use your stud finder/metal detector first!! DAMHIKT

Mac

George... funny that you mention pao ferro.. I was given a dozen 1x1x12" blanks of it as part of my recent "gloat"...

I've turned one piece as a sort of test and it seems to turn very well and have a nice look, sort of like bubinga....

Is this related to ironwood? Mac

The name means "iron tree" in Portuguese.

OK, iron bread. why do they have so many trees called bread?

As others have said, there are many woods referred to as Ironwood. They are called by that name because they are hard dense timbers. I've turned just about every spieces of Ironwood available in the United States. Desert Ironwood and Lignum viate (sp?) are both beautiful woods. One thing you have to remember when turning the very hard woods such as the ironwoods, boxwood, African Blackwood, etc. is that the normal turning tools which most of us use regularly do not work especially well with these timbers. The tools that the ancient hardwood and ivory turners used worked very well. These are for the most part scrapers with smaller cutting tips. Scrapers used on these hardwoods should have the burr honed off and they will produce shavings like you can normally obtain from a gouge or skew chisel. The woods will dull your gouges and skew chisels very quickly, but a scraper with the burr honed off will cut beautifully. If the wood is as hard as you say, I would grab all that I could get my hands on. However, as someone else noted, watch for nails on old recycled timbers they will raise havoc with the edges of your turning tools.

The article on sharpening at my web site: has pictures of hardwood turning tools and will give you some idea of what you'll need to turn that ironwood when you get it home.

Fred Holder

First off, thanks to all for your input- especially the bit about the scrapers.

I kind of thought that "Ironwood" was a loosely used term, so perhaps this will narrow it down. When we cut the ends off with the chainsaw, the wood had dense annual rings that showed a sharp contrast between a milk-chocolate color and black. The oddball thing about it was that there were frequent nodules about 3/8" in diameter in the end grain that looked a bit like the ray flecks in quartersawn oak- heck, it could even be oak, though I've never noticed ray flecks in the endgrain before.

I think I have encountered this stuff before, picking up scraps loggers had left in the forest, and still haven't been able to identify it, though I did determine that it was impossible (for me) to hollow. Though now that I am recalling it, it turned ok between centers- at least, I was able to make a tenon and mount it in the chuck.

The barn came from west-central Wisconsin, and the wood is (as previously noted) about 100 years old.

Though I guess now I don't have much of a choice- I mentioned the possibility of making bedposts out of it to my wife, and I doubt she'll let me get out of doing it now. Hopefully, it isn't too much to deal with!

A follow up:

After laboriously going through a ton and a half of pictures on Google, I think I've identified the stuff. The end grain looks like the pictures I found of the end grain of Black Locust.

So, I'm going to call it that- good enough for free wood, anyhow.

Prometheus wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

It should make a really nice set of bed posts...

Patriarch

Desert ironwood is similar to mesquite and is found in the southern border states from Texas to California. In some Mexican states it's used for turnings and carving, but the living trees are protected by the Gov't. Carvers can only use trees that are dead or fallen.

Ken Moon Webberville, TX.