bevel angle

Every time I try to rough out a bowl with my big roughing gouge it catches and takes big chunks out. :( And I cant ever seem to rub the bevel. Is it the angle (45-50°) or should I not use roughing gouge on bowls? Cheers Mick Lehmann (green turner)

Reply to
Michael Lehmann
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Mick I think you have the wrong tool although there are some folks, myself included at various times, who use a roughing gouge on bowls. I think you need a bowl gouge or an Oland tool. There are sections on my web site that will take you through from the log to the bowl.

Reply to
Darrell Feltmate

Depends on how you're using it. Though a distinct minority, users of the roughing gouge for convex cuts generally do so because it produces a fine finish for them. You do, of course, have to approach the piece properly.

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Shows how to apply a roughing gouge safely.
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and the following page show what it can do. I think I measured the grind angle at around 45 once, which is not to say it is the same now. I judge my grind not by a measure, but by the shavings produced.

Reply to
George

Michael:

Clearly some people do use a roughing gouge on bowls but it is not for beginners as you have discovered.

I really think that you ought to get some instruction before you hurt yourself. Or, if that is not possible, at least read some good books or get a video. You don't seem to have any idea of how to approach the work, what tools to use and the proper sequence of operations.

There is some risk in woodturning but you are maximizing it with your approach to it, I think.

Bill

Michael Lehmann wrote:

Reply to
Bill Rubenstein

Please edify a newcomer, Bill. I've never used a roughing gouge on a bowl, but I don't understand why it would be much different, apart from the angle at which the gouge approaches the material. What is the difference? And thanks for tolerating a novice's ignorance.

Max

Reply to
Maxprop

I'll just add that the wide radius of the roughing gouge can mean that often the part of the tool in contact with the wood can be quite a ways off to the side of the support point on the tool rest which significantly increases the torque you must counteract to maintain control. Generally speaking, smaller tools are easier to learn to control than larger tools. The tradeoff is that work proceeds more slowly and the likelihood of chatter increases with long tool overhangs. A typical bowl gouge is well engineered to give you the best of both worlds - a deep flute allows you to remove a lot of waste in a hurry and it has enough beef to minimize the tendency to flex. The strong point of a roughing gouge is for truing up spindle blanks, it excels at that, and experts can do a lot more with it, but few use it for bowls, and then usually only on the outside, rarely for hollowing the interior. A 3/8" swept back (wings ground back to 45 degrees from vertical) bowl gouge is a good starter size for someone new to turning, and you will find it is a dandy tool for roughing and shaping a lot of spindle work - week pots and hollow forms and such. I think it is the generally most useful tool to own unless you focus mainly on fine detail work.

-mike paulson, fort collins, co

Reply to
Mike Paulson

Reply to
Michael Lehmann

Ok, I can do that.

Most roughing gouges are forged and they have a small tang which is driven into the handle. Take a look at the small amount of metal which is showing at the handle. And, it is usually tapered so it gets smaller as it goes deeper into the handle. This is a definite point of weakness

-- with a bad catch it will break at the handle and will become a flying ninja whatever. The best advice for a novice is -- NEVER use a roughing gouge on bowl work -- it is a spindle tool where the forces are much less.

Bill

Maxpr>>yourself. Or, if that is not possible, at least read some good books or

Reply to
Bill Rubenstein

Another thought...

I grind my roughing gouge differently from most folks -- I grind the sides back. No trick to it, I just grind longer on the wings than in the middle and eventually the shape changes to what I want.

Why? It has nothing to do with catches. If I use the center of the gouge it works the same as anybody else's. If I roll it over to say 2 o'clock or 10 o'clock and keep the handle perpendicular to the axis of the lathe (and rub the bevel), I get a shearing cut. Try it and you'll see.

Bill

Bill Rubenste> Ok, I can do that.

Reply to
Bill Rubenstein

Hi Michael

Yes you can use a wrench to hit a nail, but it's best to use the tools for what they where designed for, especially when you are still learning. A roughing gouge is a wonderful spindle turning tool, for turning square wood into a cylinder, there's non better, for hollowing bowl blanks, there is the bowl gauge, and can you use the one for the other ?? Find another wood turner to show you, or a wood turners club, if non available than a video and or book. Wood working tools can hurt you, a wood lathe can kill you. Have a look at Darrell Feltmate's web site, he's done a lot of work to get all kinds of ideas and help for new as well as experienced wood turners

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Have fun and take care Leo Van Der Loo

Michael Lehmann wrote:

Reply to
Leo Van Der Loo

I've never liked big roughing gouges for exactly the reasons you state above. While I've never had one rip out of or break off a handle, I'm fully aware it could. As a result I tend to hold the gouge with my right hand overlapping the part of the handle that contains the tapered tang. That may not be too smart a thing to do, in case it would happen to catch and break the handle, but somewhere in the back of my mind it seems like it would support that zone better. I turned a baseball bat from maple recently, and when finished with the roughing chore, the tang on my 1/2" spindle gouge seemed loose in the handle. I'll probably replace the handle entirely, rather than attempt to tighten it.

Max

Reply to
Maxprop

Hi Max

Max why don't you get the P&N roughing gouge if you are not trusting the tang on the one you have. The P&N has a 1/2" shank, you can make or buy a handle and also use it for your 1/2" spindle gouge, it's no fun working if you are afraid something is not safe, doesn't matter if it is or isn't.

Have fun and take care Leo Van Der Loo

Maxpr>>

Reply to
Leo Van Der Loo

Yes it is a deep fluted, straight groung beast of a thing.about 40mm across. I have another that's about 25mm with the same straight grind, should I change that on one or the other?

I would also assume that I shouldn't go anywhere near a bowl with a skew.

Mick Lehmann

Reply to
Michael Lehmann

Mick wrote

Amen to that unless you plan on using the skew as a scraper. Using it as a skew is a great way to get a catch that should scare you half to death.

Reply to
Darrell Feltmate

Well, you've seen the reaction of the "strict constructionists." The operation is in the name of the tool.

Back to basics, where you consider that a gouge is a curved edge on a stick. The argument that the tang is not adequate is from someone who must be violating the second rule of turning - keep the toolrest close. Those who speak of accidental rotation due to dents on the toolrest have apparently violated rule two in the past, resulting in a dent, and are not guiding on the bevel in the present. If you don't violate the rules, you can use the tools.

In reality, if you're roughing toward the headstock, as in the information I referenced yesterday, the tool is safe, keeps the load off your arm by directing it to the toolrest, removes wood rapidly even on an underpowered lathe, and produces a smooth surface. Finishing cuts with the roughing gouge can be made with the vertical component of the "U" as if with the skew.

Assuming you are a man with good sense, you can certainly see that the tips of the U are never in any danger of contacting convex work when they're rotated toward you, projecting above the centerline of the piece into empty air, and/or trailing the cut in empty air as you skew from lesser to greater diameter. That being so, use the tool, following the ABCs of turning. Don't let others' stories of misuse deter you from experimentation, just remember that they are examples of what _not_ to do.

Reply to
George

The bevel angle on a roughing gouge should be around 33 degrees - too flat an you catch too steep and you do not cut much.

You can use the roughing gouge to rough out the bowl blank - it might feel like you are getting your teeth rattled, but you can do it.

The better alternative is the use your bowl gouge and approach the wood from the base of the bowl to the rim cutting the wood across the grain instead of straight on - this will reduce tear out and make the whole experience of turning a bowl much more enjoyable.

Ray

Reply to
Ray Sandusky

I have broken 3 roughing gouges - take it from me - these things are not very strong!

So, I bought one of the new Patience Roughing gouges from Australia the Woodcraft is selling - the tang is round and about 1/4 inch thicker than the flat ones - lets see if that one holds up!

Ray

Reply to
Ray Sandusky

I'm relatively new to turning. Would it not be possible to re-grind the gouge to a higher angle (45-60 deg) then use the roughing gouge as a bowl gouge?

Reply to
Ty

I do the same thing, (2 & 10), but could not have formed that good of a description of why/how.. good job, Bill!

mac

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Reply to
mac davis

Mick... Bite the bullet and get a mid-range set of bowl turning chisels..

I tend to get cheap when I see the price of turning accessories... and have to remind myself how much I have invested in saw blades, router bits, drill bits, etc... and that this is no different that putting boards together... to do it right and well, good tools are important..

mac

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Reply to
mac davis

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