End grain - wet or dry wood

My experience is that it depends on the woods an you are doing. As the fibers harden in some green wood, it makes them easier to shear off clean with a gouge. But some of the softer woods like pine seem to turn cleaner when green.

I have had much better luck with the scraper on mostly dry wood (not he 20 year old stuff from grandpa's barn) that isn't wet, but isn't bone dry.

Robert

Depends on the wood. Real soft stringy stuff like the true poplars and their kin are a bear to cut cleanly when green, but improve a bunch when cured. All others I use cut better green, with the short fiber stuff like maple beech,birch and cherry being the best. The thing to look for is heel bruises, those compressed areas caused by trying to press the gouge rather than letting the wood come to it. If you've got them, work to get rid of them. Let the angle do the cutting, not your strong arm.

Hi Ddur

Generally speaking, dry wood does nut cut easier then green wood, no matter what direction you cut, a reason why some turners use glue,oil, wax,water, etc. on end grain to try to fill the openings between the wood grains, the wood fiber ends, rather lean over than get cut if they have the room to do so, the sharper the tool and the more you can slice the better of course, but that's not always possible, so that's why people revert to those other things to get an advantage. Normally a gouge should give the better cut, but if you can't position it to cut proper, a sharp scraper might do a better job, and SHARP on a scraper is only good for seconds, don't turn the grinder off, it's cut/sharpen/cut/sharpen/cut etc.

Have fun and take care Leo Van Der Loo

Neither a sharp gouge nor a sharp scraper seemed to work, so I spent a little time last night working the the dreaded skew. By attacking the endgrain horizontally rather than vertically I was able to get a very smooth cut. It's going to take a lot of practice to get really comfortable with the skew, and I can only use it on the outside of the bowl, but I have great hopes for this method.

Dick Durbin Tallahassee

Hi Dick

Dick skews are for spindle work, don't get hurt using the wrong tool for the job !!!

I know you're not asking for this, but / and , and as you haven't said what kind of wood you where turning, plus, I have used some method to get a clean cut on a piece of wood that just would not cut clean.

Case in point was a piece of spalted curly Elm that also a knot in it, some would say, don't bother with bad wood, but I had tried this thinned glue way of making some bad spots turnable.

And as some had asked how I did it, plus some skepticism was raised as to the ability of finishing of the object afterward, I thought it was a good idea to make some pictures.

I decided to make some pictures of the object after the initial rough- out, than after finish turning after I had done the glue treatment, and than after final finishing.

These pic' where showed on WC.

To make some soft spots or slightly soft wood better turnable, I will take an amount of white glue and mix this with the same amount of water, (50/50) rough turn my object, let dry for a day, then submerge the rough turned wood in the 50/50 glue/water and let it sit in there for a day or two, take it out and let it drip off for a few hours, then put it in a paper bag and let it dry my regular way, after it's dry, I turn it and sand and finish it with pure tung oil. Works for me.

I have a picture of the finished bowl in this album, it's next to the Buckthorn bowl, as "Siberian Elm Wood" so if you want to have a look you can.

Have fun and take care Leo Van Der Loo

My question would be -- how many trips to the emergency room does it take to master the skew on the outside of a bowl.

The only thing more dangerous (and requiring more trips) might be using it on the inside of the bowl.

And the "Spindle Roughing Gouge" is best left in the drawer also.

Bill

snipped-for-privacy@rogers.com wrote:

Amazing. Though I'm of the belief that there may have been more scraping then cutting involved, I certainly would be interested in seeing the technique. You grow by learning.

Some try to increase their stature by stepping on others....

The wood was birch. I presented the edge of the skew almost vertically (maybe 5 degrees off).

I began by rubbing the bevel then rotating the handle outward until the edge started to pick up. As I moved forward down the curve of the bowl I had to rotate the handle further out to keep the edge engaged.

This was merely a finishing cut after the forming had been done. Since the edge was nearly vertical there was little chance of a catch occurring. I tried emulating the same sort of cut with a bowl chisel but could not get the same result.

I appreciate everyone's advise and concern for my safety. Back to the drawing board.

Dick "no ER trips yet" Durbin

It's the nose of the skew that causes concern for me. Were you trailing the cut, so the nose remained above the surface, or nosing down? Straight chisel would be safer.

I do similar with the nearly straight portion of a U -shaped gouge, but it has the same problem of naturally ejecting when the bevel tries to stay engaged at the heel on an out-sloping surface. Got to change angle of attack and keep lifting the bevel to keep the tool in the work, even when the bevel is fairly short. I've seen " famous-name" people associated with straight-edge tools and end grain trimming, but I prefer the slight bit of extra safety available by using a large radius gouge. Have to keep the whole thing above center, and the ears out, but the grain pick-up is at the bottom, or beginning of the cut, with a clean cut at the top, where the edge is almost vertical.

In short, the edges are going out and away with a gouge, not straight as with a chisel, or, and this I don't care to play with much - into the work with a nose-up skew.

Try scraping gently, especially on wet wood.

Hi Dick, Glad you haven't needed to go to the ER. Unless TMH has changed lately, you couldn't find a parking space anyway.

It's an old dodge seldom used these days, but If you have an old unused shallow flute spindle gouge, say 3/4" or larger, you might want to try regrinding the bevel 'upside down' on to the flute side.

With the new gouge flute side down flat on the tool rest with the edge above center and just barely off rubbing, the wings will provide an almost catch free angle for safely shearing the OUTSIDE of a bowl. Try both pushing and pulling your new shearing tool along the rest, Just be careful and take small bites. If you don't like it, I'll apologize and regrind the bevel without too much lost metal. :) Have fun.

Turn to Safety, Arch Fortiter

Why regrind? Works great as a cutter.

Second gouge.

George inquires, "Why regrind?" "Works great as a cutter."

WebTV won't take me to your reference so I hope you will discuss it a little. I might be wrong, but for me regrinding and using flute side down works even greater as a shearer. It does raise an interesting question though. ie. When skewing or shearing with a double bevelled tool, which bevel rules? I had thought mostly the one that rides the blank, but both penetrate. I'm often wrong, but I'm willing to listen. :)

Turn to Safety, Arch Fortiter

Dick You are a brave man. The thought of a skew cut on the outside of a bowl brings back memories of beginning turning. I still have all my fingers but I am not skewing a bowl again. I like to use a shear scraper on the outside of a bowl. This is something I learned from a John Jordan video. He learned it from Del stubbs who learned it from... Any way, take a chisel and grind it about 20* back from corner to corner. Grind the edge to about 45*. Run a slip stone over the back to remove any burr and then push the slip stone edge against the bevel to raise a burr. The tool is used almost vertical, certainly no more than 45*, and gently drawn in the direction of the burr. Very fine shavings result. I realize the directions are clear as mud. I will try to get a page up soon.

Darrell, I for one am always interested in what you have to say. But I have to tell you, you lost me on that one. I guess let us know when you get the page!

Robert

Confusing? Can I be confusing? O yeah. :-)

Hi Robert

Shear scraping as it generally is called, you use a scraper on an angle (skewed) if the the scraper is square across the end it is hard to hold it on skewed angle, so some will grind the end of the scraper skewed.

I use a round nose scraper for that, that way I can use it inside or outside.

Like Darrell said, you hold the scraper at 45 to 50 degrees (or what works for you) with the handle low, and at a angle to the wood so it will scrape very fine, again scrapers need to be sharp and that last only seconds.

Don't know if I did any better than Darrell, but I tried.

Have fun and take care Leo Van Der Loo

The edge rules, as always. Joaz's in-cannel solution gives you the shear angle I use with the large-radius gouges, even the back angle, since he grinds in an arc around the nose. Difference is the cutting angle is much lower with the bevel guided on the wood. Bevel won't guide when at a high angle. It's the equivalent of using a low-angle plane for tough grain versus the York pitch smoother.

The bevel gives good cough protection over a scraper. A cough pushes the bevel into the work, not the edge, and the wood easily rejects it. Scrapers work best with modest stock removal, and can escalate so rapidly with a bit of pressure that a spouse announcing dinner can ruin an hour's worth of bowl....

Darrell if you think Dick is brave check this link.

For those with WebTV it is like a square bowl turned so that the four wings would touch the table but two bowls joined together at the rim so that there would be eight wings (four pointing up and four on the table.) Apparently the V between the upper and lower wings is cut with a skew chisel (a quick shiver there as I typed this). He then carves off three of the downward pointing wings and one of the upward to get the shape shown.

Now you have to have a lot of nerve and a large amount of skill to do that.

BillR

I went back to view the Richard Raffan video in which he turns a lidded box. The lid is a curved shape, not unlike the outside of the small bowls I am making. He seems to do OK with a skew.

What are your thoughts on Raffan's use of the skew?

Dick Durbin