I am in the market for a new lathe (my first WOOD lathe) and am considering the Harbor Freight 90265-0VGA 15" variable speed lathe. I am interested in that one because money is going to be tight for me for about the next year. From what little there is to read, it seems like it will take care of my needs for the forseeable future IF it is even worth considering. Should I even be considering this lathe, or should I wait for a year (or maybe a little longer) to buy something a little better?
I am in the market for a new lathe (my first WOOD lathe) and am considering the Harbor Freight 90265-0VGA 15" variable speed lathe. I am interested in that one because money is going to be tight for me for about the next year. From what little there is to read, it seems like it will take care of my needs for the forseeable future IF it is even worth considering. Should I even be considering this lathe, or should I wait for a year (or maybe a little longer) to buy something a little better?
Wait a year. If you're tight on money with just the lathe purchase then you're in for a rude awakening. You can certainly turn with that lathe as many have and still do. It might be just the introduction you need and want into the world of woodturning. But it's only the beginning in many aspects of woodturning with money being the most obvious.
On the same token, I also don't recommed to new turners that they buy the most expensive do-all lathe either. If you'll wait a year or so and maybe find a woodturning club or just someone else in the area that will let you use their lathe, you'll be in a far better position to judge for yourself what your needs are as well as what to expect out of a (hopefully) variety of lathes.
A quality lathe doesn't have to be terribly expensive but it does have to have quality, durability, and support. I don't put the HF, Grizzly, Craftsman, etc. lathes in most of those categories. I simply can't recommend them to anyone for almost any level of woodturning. I just won't take that chance for *my* recommendation on those products. Others may and I'll respect their decisions, if not agree with them.
One of the first questions to consider is what do you *think* you'll be wanting to do with your lathe? What kind of things do you want to make? That makes a big difference in what can be recommended. I say "*think*" because once you get into it, your thinking may change as wildly as mine has.
Thanks for your response. Gave me something to think about. But can you be more specific on what the shortcomings of the HF as opposed to some of the better machines? From the pictures, it looks like the castings might be a little lighter weight, so a good SOLID table would be in order. I could run down to the local scrap metal yard and buy enough 1/2" plate to build a good, solid, heavy, stable table , but what else? Lighter weight bearings? Wrong type of bearings? Softer less rigid cast iron? Surface machining? Non standard accessories (such as the Morse tapers or ??).
As for what I think I might be using it for, hmmmm. I can see doing a little of everything. To start off, probably just some turnings to dress up furniture that I build, or to make feet for them. But I would definetly like to try my hand at turning some bowls or other decorative pieces such as lamps down the road. Maybe even replace the stair railings in my house at some point. That is why I was wanting something larger than the mini's.
Something else that I am thinking about is how much turning I will be doing. I won't be one of those guys that is in my shop (ok, my garage) every evening and weekend. Not that there is anything wrong with that. :-). But I think I would still have a hard time justifying spending $1000 on a lathe too.
Your suggestion about the club I had already thought about. My problem is that the only two that I have found so far are both about an hour away. That probably doesn't seem like a whole lot, but it is still a hassle anyway. I guess I'll just have to bite the bullet and do it anyway. You did remind me that a neighbor has just acquired a lathe (it was GIVEN to him
*^$@& ) and maybe I could go over and mess up HIS garage. Yeah. that's it.
Sorry to ramble on so long. I do have one more question for you, though. How long have you been turning, and what type of equipment do you use? (ok, that's two questions).
It's a bit like the difference between a Toyota Echo and a Yugo. Both are little automobiles, both run on basically the same principles, but one is a quality vehicle and the other . . . well, that's pretty much in the history books. Some people believe this is the same machine as the Grizzly G5979 or the Jet 12x36, but I think it's just a knock-off, and a cheap one at that. Can you turn wood on it? Yes. Will it give satisfaction and represent good value? I doubt it.
You can probably do all the above on the HF lathe. With a little luck you can also drive from LA to NYC in a Yugo. Beginning to see the point?
LOL. Famous last words. I suspect many here have uttered those same words, or similar, only to find themselves contemplating the purchase of a Stubby or Oneway a year or so later. Some people use wood lathes as an adjunct to their wood shops. Others are obsessed and find almost no time for any woodworking beyond turning. YMMV somewhere in between.
Unless your neighbor is a mass torts attorney, he should be agreeable to let you use his lathe. ;-) I already have two neighborhood teens doing some closely-supervised turning on my lathe, which is only about 5 mo. old. What I lack as an experienced teacher is made up for by their creativity and enthusiasm. In many ways I'm learning from them.
I did some turning in middle school, and some periodically since on other's lathes. I bought a Jet 1442 around the end of last year and am doing my best to wear it out since. Essentially I'm a novice, but my learning curve seems to be reasonably steep. While I haven't produced anything akin to the items in the galleries of some of the others' websites herein, I am getting better and learning a lot. I recommend obtaining any of a number of good instructional books by authors such as Raffan, Darlow, Nish, Key, and others. And videos are the best, such as those by Batty, Key, Klein, Ellsworth, Stott, and others, ad infinitum. Moreover, you've come to the right place. There are too many highly-experienced turner/contributors to RCW to mention fairly, and all have something bona fide and worthwhile to contribute. Ask questions and learn. Nicest bunch of helpful folks on Usenet today.
Hi Wayne, I agree with Andrew's advice. Many turners and turning drop-outs rue not having followed it when they began. The opinions of turners who have actually bought and used compromise machines differ enormously, so it's who to believe?'
Your questions tell me that you are as competent as anyone to inspect the machine and make your own evaluation. You know that any machine tool that costs way less than the market has to be compromised and you are looking for the compromise to decide if you can accept it. If we knew how to separate the bargains from the junk, we would all be using them.
There are compromises other than physical defects too. Decisions re what risks are acceptable in buying a compromised lathe are personal. Everyone must decide if the lathe can do the job now and for the foreseeable future. Then to have it now on a narrow budget, each potential buyer must question if s/he could repair, tune up, obtain spares, tolerate downtime, suffer an injury or lose money on a bad bargain? Likely, the lathe will be bought or not bought regardless of other's advice.
Not infrequently, questions about woodturning end up being answered by the questioner. Just asking often helps clarify the answer...this post sure hasn't. Arch
The main bug with the lathe was the gear to gear drive between motor and spindle. It has been replaced with a drive belt. The HF made, or at least imported, by Central Machinery is the same as my old Craftsman with the drive slightly changed. The castings are good, the weight is fair for the price range, spindle and tail stock are standard Morse taper 2 and 1" x 8 threads. The spindle is not through bored but that is a minor hassle. I have used mine for 18" bowls and for lace bobbins. It does have a DC motor that needs to be turned down to no speed and then brought up to speed in order to turn it off, but this was never a problem and took split seconds. Torque can be a bit low at slow speeds which is common for DC motors and the brushes will have to be replaced every two or three years depending on usage (about a five minute job). I have turned for 8 or 9 years and am a juried member of the New Brunswick Crafts Council. Currently I own four lathes and this looks like one that should last a person a long time.
Well, let me jump in here. I usually sit back and benefit from everyones sage advise. This morning I fell the urge to put in my 2 cents.
I am speaking as a general tinkerer, a dentist and a metal and woodworker, also as a husband to the same wonderful woman for 30 years. All of the above have a bearing on the decisions that we make. Buying the biggest and the best and the most expensive (these are not always related) can be done when you have a lot of experience and know what you can do and what you want to do and what you want to experiment on. Even then the decision can turn on something emotional such as your relationship with the sales people or the service people and their reputation. Sometimes it makes sense to forgo the latest bells and whistles for reliability (things do not always work as advertised, especially computer related items).
If morality is not an issue, take it for a test run, under supervision, in a class, or watch someone use it and ask questions. Usually there is no right way to do anything: you do what works for you. The compromise you may have to make is that you will have to learn new and different ways to do the same thing, but that is always useful.
If you know what you want to do, for example turn 3 foot diameter vessels 6 feet long, you would not buy a micro lathe. If you have no ability to work around problems and compensate for not having an exact speed, then do not go with anything other than a variable speed unit. If you need 300 cutting tools to turn a fancy spindle, then get them all or learn to be flexible (easy for some people, impossible for others: you shoud see how many different styles of "burs" there are for a high speed dental handpiece).
I think that one of the issues here is whether a newbie can use an "inferior" machine and still learn to safely be creative with it. I can only say that in teaching dental students that there are some who have the best tools and are given detailed written instructions and intensive one on one demonstrations and mentoring, who still do not get it.
I think that the bottom line for me is to learn as much as I can about something new, try it out and if it has a place in my heart, acquire it. If I love it, but I need new features or new features are available in the latest model, then it is time to move up. The wife came perfect. I had to work on perfecting me to reach her level!
Other learning styles that may work for you is to acquire something and jump in. You have to know yourself.
Sorry for the length of the rant.
Charles Friedman DDS Ventura California now Prosthodontist, teacher, woodturner, metalworker, CNC engraver
=================================== Max, I think you have confused 2 different lathes that HF now has in their inventory. One is a clone of the Jet 1236, and it is probably close to the quality of the original, since the Jet and Grizzly versions don't draw raving reviews themselves. The Jet 1236 apparently does not reach the quality of their own Mini, if previous comments on this NG are to be believed.
The other lathe is a 15 X 40 inch unit, apparently based on the original Sears 15 inch lathe that replaced their monotube lathe. The revised version that Darrell has is apparently a competent unit, and according to him, the HF version has corrected the main drive problem that plagued the original one he had.
So this is not a clone of the Jet/Grizzly 12 X 36 inch machines, but may be more in line with the 14 inch Delta and other similar ones.
Don't mean to be too picky, but it seemed that you were comparing apples and oranges ...
Sorry I haven't gotten back sooner but 'tis the season for shows, galleries, demonstrations, teaching and other events.
Since you mention the HF lathes, I'll be specific about which models of wood lathes that HF carries and that I based my opinions on. I've not tried all of the lathes they've ever sold (such as the Woodfast that they carry) and can't say that they haven't dramatically improved what they do offer over the past 18 months (yeah, right). HF is a third tier, at best, retailer/distributor and these lathes, along with most of the other products they carry, fit into their business model as they should. The models are:
- 42816-0VGA. It's a monotube (that says a lot right there if you've ever owned one) 12x37, 1/2hp lathe. I own the old Grizzly version of it and I believe these are versions of a Craftsman model as well. I've used this particular model from HF and while there are some differences, they are slight and don't really don't do anything to help the negatives of this line. There's just so much to say about this (and the related versions from different manufacturers/sellers) particular lathe that I've had problems with. Poor fitting components; alignment problems everywhere; soft cast iron + fine threads = stripping problems; banjo thin and weak; vibration; this particular models' motor placement (which is a problem with many lathes out there!); banjo/toolrest lever placement, etc. Oh, there's just too many things and I've not even gotten specific here. The one thing I do like, which isn't a good thing to many people especially new turners, about my Grizzly version is the cross-ribbed belt. For just a 1/2HP motor, you can't stop it. You can't make the belt slip. No catch is too big to stop it. It'll blow everything apart with a catch or heavy cut before the belt will slip or the motor stop. Of course, with a slow speed of 1,000+ rpm, it's got some momentum behind it. I think the HF version has a slow speed of
600 rpm but it seems faster than that to me.
- 90265-0VGA. 15" electronic variable speed. 2 hp motor if I remember right. Way underpowered regardless of what the motor is rated at. A better lathe than the rest of the HF branded ones but is just way too light and thin casting to last with sustained use. Sure, many can use it and do but I won't recommend it as a general use lathe for the long haul. For very small diameter and easy working items, it should be fine in this regard. Swivel headstocks.... not a good thing in any lathe at any price. Low end speed of
500. Much too fast to (potentially) do a 20" item or even most 15" items. Heck, I'd be afraid the junction between the headstock and bed would snap if you tried that on this lathe. Tailstock is pretty lightweight too. Wouldn't want to rely on it holding a large out of round piece for years worth of use. Particularly not impressed with the casting (seems to be 3rd or 4th tier production runs) uniformity and parts fitting of this machine. I'd be afraid of the bed moving on me over time with no good way of adjusting things when it does. Bearings and electronics seem to be fine here but nothing to be excited about. The banjo/toolrest seem to be adequate but the handles are too close together and get in my way. Couldn't always get a good lock on the banjo or the tailstock when I've used it but it may just be the fault of that one machine. So, I can't fault the entire line because of that one bad experience. Same thing with not recommending it because of one good experience either. Of the HF branded machines, this is the one that I would recommend but I would classify it as a weak 12" lathe suitable for spindle work and careful, light bowls over the long haul. There's better bang for your buck out there though.
- 45276-OVGA and 36066-3VGA. 14x40, 1/2hp. Everything about this lathe is THIN. Thin steel tubing bed ways(major flex, vibration, and wear); weak tailstock; way underpowered motor for what you *could* (but shouldn't) mount on this thing; banjo/toolrest is THIN and weak (vibration goes along with this as does breaking). The legs are so thin and wobbly that I'd be afraid to add much weight to it in order to help stabilize the rest of the thing. The legs just won't take it. Terrible machine for what I could recommend to someone, especially just starting out.
- 38515-1VGA: This is the same lathe I used at a wholesale warehouse demonstration many months ago. It's the exact same lathe except this company had them at around $60 and threw in some 10-piece-for-$9 woodturning tools too. They get things from overstocks, auctions, bankruptsies, etc. Wow, what a piece of junk. I went back home after that experience and hugged my Jet Mini. No, really! Way too much to gripe about on this one.
- 34706-5VGA: 12x33; 3/4 hp. Aain, thin but it has a cast iron bed. Terribly light and uneven in the models I've worked with. The features of pivoting headstock, gap bed, and a reaves drive separately is bad enough but together it's just too much to take. Seems to be like the Jet 12" although I've never had them side by side before. Don't like either of them in use anyway. I mean, I can (and have several times) do a demo in them but I wouldn't want to rely on it for actual work or spend my money on them. Toolrest extension is thin and weak. Toolrest post is nice and big though. Can't say much for the tailstock clamp as I've had them be all over from too narrow to too wide. Consistency with most of these lathes' parts just isn't good. If you get a good one, you've most likely just gotten lucky is how I feel. Some lathes, it's the other way around. You're surprised that something is wrong. These, it's a surprise if something isn't wrong. Anyway, light, thin, weak base as usual. The Jet version seems to have a thicker base but I can't remember exactly. I just drilled into the Jet one a couple of weekends ago and it wasn't too awfully bad. Poor positioning of the motor. I've had these lathes having a bow in the bed before too. Just not good quality casting that hasn't taken the time and care to be done right. At least the motor is sized to around what the lathe should be able to handle. A very light duty spindle lathe maybe.
- 3173-0VGA. Best wood lathe-that-you-can-fit-into-your-shirt-pocket value on the planet! Actually, never used it but it just looks so darned cute.
So, that's my take on those particular brands that I've actually used. Sure, you can get lucky and get something out of these that will serve you and your needs for a long time. It just depends on what YOU are comfortable with. I take chances with myself and my equipment. But I can't do that with recommendations to other people.
- Andrew
"NoOne N Particular" wrote in message news:Qr_lc.5359$ snipped-for-privacy@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com...
Quite right. Hard to believe they are produced (or at least sold) by the same company.
I didn't have much of a problem with the drive unit other than it was very underpowered. Not even close to the rated 2 hp. A little noise on a couple of them but nothing too serious. I'm more concerned that, even with the underpowered nature of the ones I've used, that it's still more of a match for the rest of the components and casting of the machine. They either need to dial down the power (which I wouldn't like to see at all for this size of lathe), or beef up the other equipment to match it.
Good luck getting your order from Harbor Freight. I ordered from them a month ago and so far all I've received in return is lie after lie. Now they're telling me it might take another month before they ever even admit they didn't send me my order. They have my money. I have a handful of hot air. They're lying scum at Harbor Freight.
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