Nova 3K

Am I the only person who is disappointed to hear that Teknatool has discontinued the $850 Nova 3K in order to concentrate on the $1900 DVR? I don't know about the rest of you, but for me 1000 extra bucks to get into a Nova isn't chump change. That's a lot of bowls, pens and candlesticks. _Is_ there a domestic (US) lathe comparable to the Nova 3000 for a similar price? Seems that Teknatool is shutting out a lot of potential customers who might be inclined to buy a less-pricey "entry level" lathe and have something to move up to in the future. I mean, if I had 2 grand to spend on a lathe I'd probably wait a little longer and just save up for a Oneway. AAMOF, that's probably what I will do, now.

That's like GM saying, "We make so much selling Hummers, per unit, and they're just such a better machine that we're going to drop the Chevy, GM and Saturn lines and just concentrate on the Hummers."

Maybe I don't know much about business, but it seems like a big ol' "duh" to me.

Chuck wrote: : will do, now.

: That's like GM saying, "We make so much selling Hummers, per unit, and : they're just such a better machine that we're going to drop the Chevy, : GM and Saturn lines and just concentrate on the Hummers."

Well, they probably would, if it weren't for federal gas mileage requirements. The profit margin on traditional (truck-based) SUVs is gigantic compared to typical sedans.

-- Andy Barss

just to react to one piece of this commentary - every high end lathe I am familiar with is belt driven - that includes Axminster, Oneway, Stubby, Nichols, and so on - I guess I don't understand then, with one NZ company making a "stepper motor" driven lathe, how that means that "everyone has made their decision" - did I misunderstand? snip

OK guys, pay attention. I think what George is trying to say that it is time for Teknatool to "step up to the pump" and make a more proprietary, unrepairable, and more disposable lathe and charge too much for it along the way. Then they WILL be like General Motors.

There will be no more of this nonsense of buying a belt, replacing a motor or controller yourself if these and those like them have their way. You will ship a broken machine to them or take it to their trained monkeys at their "authorized" (read: those who paid for the license and big bucks for someone in the shop to be trained by the manufacturer) for repair.

Wanna upgrade the motor? Too bad. Wanna better controller? Tough. Like Bogart said, "oh yeah? Well I"ll tell you... you'll take it and you'll like it".

On the other hand, I think those on this group actually make up a small percentage of the average turners. Many here, like myself are inverterate tinkers, never leaving well enough alone. Always experimenting, always tweaking, always trying something new. Making tools, making finishes, trying new techniques or projects. I think of my woodshop as Dr. Frankenstein's lab.

However, in my local woodturning club of about 60 people, there is only one other like me. They are all bowl/platter/vase turners, and that is it. So the machine that they buy is made for that, and that is all they do. They are a timid lot, and don't want to take a chance at "messing something up". So they will do nothing to change or modify their lathes. The DVR may or may not be a valid step up for the $$$ for people, but it is probably just as good for most since the machine, like most today, is all it will ever be when they get it. They have no sense of exploration or Frakenstein gene, and don't care.

I think that getting rid of a mid range lathe as nice as the Teknatool (one of the galleried turners in our club still swears by his old one) is stupid. I am sure this is just about making more $$$ per unit, and not a statement on the quality or drive system of lathe.

After all, others down under (I know, I know, Teknatool is in NZ and the others are in AUS) didn't get George's memo that the decision had been made. In addition to the lathes mentioned by Mr. Noble, there are the wonderful Vicmarc, and the great Woodfast lathes that are still belt driven.

Robert

Right Bill, they are all belt-driven except the Poolewoods which are direct drive. Apparently there was a rift between Poolewood and the actual manufacturer of the lathe, so they are both coming out with different models.

Look at market share of the step pulley types are out there.

Then tell me how many have come on the market in the last five years.

Now do you understand?

----------->>

========================== Yep, Seems like the Reeves drive is the new default drive system. However, it is limited in it's speed ranges ( usually approx 500-2000 RPM) unless you also have some step drive pulleys and belts to use in conjunction with it. But putting a jack shaft into a Reeves system would be a real bear to engineer, especially if it's a swivel head.

Ken Moon Webbeville, TX.

They didn't do it _before_ the nanny-state mileage requirements, why would they yearn to do it afterward? It doesn't make sense, if you want your company to be huge and make big profits to only cater to the upper echelons of car (or any other big ticket items) buyers. Look at BMW, Mercedes and other traditional luxury car manufacturers. Many of these car makers have introduced various "entry-level" models as well as "certified pre-owned" units to meet the tastes and slightly smaller pocketbooks of those aspiring to grander things in the car market.

First from a Woodcraft rep then directly from a Teknatool rep, via email. "Yes, the Nova 3000 has been removed from production." ....was the actual line.

:>: That's like GM saying, "We make so much selling Hummers, per unit, and :>: they're just such a better machine that we're going to drop the Chevy, :>: GM and Saturn lines and just concentrate on the Hummers." :> :> :>Well, they probably would, if it weren't for federal gas mileage :>requirements. The profit margin on traditional (truck-based) SUVs is :>gigantic compared to typical sedans.

: They didn't do it _before_ the nanny-state mileage requirements, why : would they yearn to do it afterward? It doesn't make sense, if you : want your company to be huge and make big profits to only cater to the : upper echelons of car (or any other big ticket items) buyers.

I'm not sure I understand your point here. Maybe you're talking only about Hummers (and I'm not convinced that they are such better machines than, say, a Saturn). I was taking your point more broadly, i.e. about large, truck-style SUVs vs. passenger cars.

And citing GM as a company making huge profits maybe isn't the best example, nowadays!

-- Andy Barss

However, given a few of the responses, there seems a "Hummer" mentality contingent here.

Stubbies and VicMarks and Oneways, Oh my!

My point is, when you have a proven widget that you can sell to 10 million people and develop a Widget that sells for 10x the $$ to 1000 people, it's silly to drop the widget to exclusively sell the Widget. How can you hope to develop a customer base whom you want to aspire to the _top_ of your product line, if you have no introductory line? Very simple business practice, really. Why else would turners "waste time" turning $1-$2 geegaws at shows, when they can make SO much more selling just their $300 bowls?

Just the one I'm most familiar with. Call it Bob's Widget's, if you want.

It probably comes down to a higher profit margin. If they can dedicate more mfg space to equipment to make the more profitable lathe, they can be yet more profitable. Plus with more volume they may lower their motor costs significantly. Maybe they want to raise the standard for an introductory lathe. An introductory motorcycle or snowmobile can be $3000-6000 for an adult so why does a lathe need to be

So why isn't Ford still selling new model Ts?

Maybe some executives are sick of seeing there company's good name trashed in this form and others, when the motor shaft brakes repeatedly and the engineers cant seem to find a inexpensive solution.

Ok, I feel that it is time for me to weigh in on this thread. Maybe a different perspective may be of interest...

I'm the North American importer for the Stubby lathes --

For those of you attending the AAW symposium at the end of the month, you'll be seeing the prototype of a new and less expensive model -- the F600. It is missing some of the unique features of the Stubby S750 and S1000 but it will be every bit as robust and nice to use as its big brothers -- just more limiting.

It will also be cast iron -- lots of it because cast iron is a major part of what gives the Stubby product line its robustness, freedom from vibration, long life and all the rest of the things which go with the name Stubby.

While it will be less costly than its big brothers, it won't be able to compete price-wise with a lot of other machines -- it will still be on the upper side of $3000.00 and pushing $4000.00.

Now, we could build a fabricated lathe (welded steel construction) for less money -- quite a bit less money. But it won't feel or work like the Stubby that people know today. Does it make sense for us to have what we would always need to consider an inferior product just for us to have an entry level product? Might users of our entry level product, when ready to upgrade, look elsewhere because of the short-comings of our entry level product?

I really am asking for opinions and would like to hear what others say about it. I've rejected the idea of selling a fabricated machine but maybe I'm wrong.

Bill Rubenstein Stubby Lathe USA, Inc.

Chuck wrote:

(Mysteriously, you're arguing against yourself, as well as comparing apples and whisk brooms.) They're not making Model Ts because they're making about 50 other vehicles instead, some of which cost, (in 2005 dollars) less than the Model T did. (A model T cost more than [113%] a year's wage...you can buy a 2005 Ford Focus [with a 100,000 mile warranty!] for less than half [41%] of an average annual wage.) So let's see, instead of making one good vehicle in one color, they're making (for the sake of argument) 50 vehicles in 50 colors and at the same time appealing to a greater volume of the population. You do the math.

Huh? What does Teknatool's engineering problems and their success or failure at finding a solution have to do with discontinuing a proven product line at a lower price point?

You clearly have an axe to grind with people who aren't satisfied with a defective product and have the audacity to complain about it. (Or is your axe with Teknatool for having fragile motor shafts??) That's neither here nor there and wasn't the point of the discussion. (And why do you continue to argue both sides of the issue?)

I'm not sure you get my point, and I certainly don't get yours.

This may or may not all be true, but I think my original argument stands on its own: If you _can_ offer a lower-end product to a larger percentage of a decidedly small population, why not do so? You're certainly more likely to gain customer loyalty, which is no small potatoes. Particularly when your next product price is over 100% more than the lower end, and when you have to ship the thing halfway around the world to a large part of your customers. It's important to know that you're catching people at the early stages AS WELL AS the later stages of their hobby/craft/career.

Raise their "standard" maybe. There are plenty of lathes out there for less than $900, though. But if you want to get people into your product line, ___and already have the capacity to do so___ , (which pre-answers the argument of "Then why aren't there any $500 Stubbys") why on earth would you throw that selling potential away?

Which does nothing at all for those for whom a DVR is priced beyond their means. There are lots of other lathes around, and I'm sure I'll get by just fine by _not_ ever owning a Nova. I was just surprised and frankly shocked when I heard that they had dropped the 3k in favor of a product that has had such a shaky start, (hey, I didn't write the reviews, I just read them.) and prices them (Teknatool) out of the market of a lot of beginners and hobbyists.

Chuck:

Thanks for the feedback. Yes, I know about things like swing and such (I've done a little turning on the machine) but that will have to wait for AAW. Also, the motor and package supplied with the machine will be the same as I'm supplying with the S750 and S1000 -- 2 hp, Cutler Hammer VFD with a full-function remote control.

Bill

Chuck wrote: