Sanding bowls

I have tried a lot of sanding tools and techniques over the years. The best way to sand a bowl is to develop better tool techniques that cut leave a better surface that needs less sanding. Having said that, I believe it was Bill Grumbine that said it is sometimes a necessary to use the 80 grit gouge.

When I first started turning I was told by various turners of many and varied ways to sand. One guy told me to always keep the lathe up on the fastest speed and use a drill. Another told me to always sand with the lathe off. The answer is somewhere in between. Now I use several different sanding tools, depending on what the problem is and what part of the bowl is being sanded. For instance, there always seems to be a difficult area just off center of the end grain of a bowl. It appears in four spots, two on the inside and two on the outside of a bowl at 180 degrees of each other. Those areas are usually sanded separately and more aggressively. They are worse on some woods than others. Some woods are just easier to sand than others.

Here are four kinds of sanding that I use on most every bowl:

1. I use an inertia sander (Sorby Sandmaster) with the lathe running at between 900 and 1200 rpm. This works nice for smoothing out tool marks and with course grit sandpaper and can get rid of some (not all) of the tear out you might get on the inside of the bowl. It also works very nice with finer grit paper because it does not leave very many swirl lines or scratches.

1. I also use a cheap knock off 45 degree angle drill for bottomsof the bowl, the rim, and some of the tough spots. Usually this works best with the lathe on a slow speed (100 to 400 rpm) or stopped, depending on what the problem is. If the lathe is stopped it can tend to dig into the wood and cause dents and dimples especially with courser grits so be careful.

2. I recently purchased a random orbital air sander specially made for bowls from Packard. It is manufactured by Grex. You need to have a large air compressor to run this tool. I have found that the best use of this tool is when the lathe is off and I am sanding the tough spots like end grain tear out, etc. It does not dig into the wood and does not make dimples, holes, nor scratch marks like the angle drill. It is hard to control this tool when the lathe is running.

1. Sometimes it is best to resort to good old hand sanding. Lathe can be on or off. Slower speeds are best for the bowl and your fingers. I have found that sanding at too high of a speed will usually cause other problems. Wears out sandpaper faster, causes checking of the wood, sends more dust flying, etc.

Hope this helps, Ted

I have tried a lot of sanding tools and techniques over the years. The best way to sand a bowl is to develop better tool techniques that cut leave a better surface that needs less sanding. Having said that, I believe it was Bill Grumbine that said it is sometimes a necessity to use the 80 grit gouge.

When I first started turning I was told by various turners of many and varied ways to sand. One guy told me to always keep the lathe up on the fastest speed and use a drill. Another told me to always sand with the lathe off. The answer is somewhere in between. Now I use several different sanding tools, depending on what the problem is and what part of the bowl is being sanded. For instance, there always seems to be a difficult area just off center of the end grain of a bowl. It appears in four spots, two on the inside and two on the outside of a bowl at 180 degrees of each other. Those areas are usually sanded separately and more aggressively. They are worse on some woods than others. Some woods are just easier to sand than others.

Here are four kinds of sanding that I use on most every bowl:

1. I use an inertia sander (Sorby Sandmaster) with the lathe running at between 900 and 1200 rpm. This works nice for smoothing out tool marks and with course grit sandpaper and can get rid of some (not all) of the tear out you might get on the inside of the bowl. It also works very nice with finer grit paper because it does not leave very many swirl lines or scratches.

1. I also use a cheap knock off 45 degree angle drill for bottoms of the bowl, the rim, and some of the tough spots. Usually this works best with the lathe on a slow speed (100 to 400 rpm) or stopped, depending on what the problem is. If the lathe is stopped it can tend to dig into the wood and cause dents and dimples especially with courser grits so be careful.

2. I recently purchased a random orbital air sander specially made for bowls from Packard. It is manufactured by Grex. You need to have a large air compressor to run this tool. I have found that the best use of this tool is when the lathe is off and I am sanding the tough spots like end grain tear out, etc. It does not dig into the wood and does not make dimples, holes, nor scratch marks like the angle drill. It is hard to control this tool when the lathe is running.

1. Sometimes it is best to resort to good old hand sanding. Lathe can be on or off. Slower speeds are best for the bowl and your fingers. I have found that sanding at too high of a speed will usually cause other problems. Wears out sandpaper faster, causes checking of the wood, sends more dust flying, etc.

Hope this helps, Ted

Sanding sealer is sometimes helpful. The most difficult part is where the end grain wants to flop around like hair, and sealer can lock it in place so it can be sanded off smooth, rather than combed.

Charlie

For the stuff that I have to hand sand, like pens, and for the palm sander, I like this stuff:

(Klingspor's Woodworking Shop) I use it both dry and with Danish Oil and it never seems to discolor the wood or degrade from the oil.. A bit pricy, but like Steve Russell says "Use sandpaper like someone else was paying for it" I've found this to be excellent advice..

I use a cheap close-quarter drill and have 1", 2" and 3" mandrels/pads..

I use these for rough edge bowls:

And these for "normal" stuff: I like the "wave" because I can cheat a little with them and get into beads and things, also not have to worry about the edge of the disk or holder hitting the wood..

I just ordered a starter pack of these:

I'll post something after I use and abuse them..

mac

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As a production bowl turner, the less sanding I do the better. The finish cuts can eliminate at least one grit of abrasive: very light cuts with a freshly sharpened tool at a shear angle). Since my bowls are simple shapes (no beads, coves, or burned in lines) I power sand the whole thing. Because they are warped, I have to have my lathe on the slowest speed which is around 20 rpm. Any faster than that, and I can't keep my hands, the sander, or the abrasive on the wood. I do have the Sioux/Milwaukee angle drills. I will get about 400 bowls (6 or so months) from a drill before the bearings are shot, and it is about $70 to get them rebuilt. I got one of the cheap $30 models, and it didn't last a month before the plastic casing was shot. l prefer an angle drill to the 90 degree drills for getting into the bottom of the bigger bowls. I have a pneumatic drill, and found out that it keeps the compressor running full time. Not bad in the winter when I want some extra heat, but bad in the summer. A lot cheaper to run the electric drills. I have the slow speed models, and have a piece of cork under the trigger to keep the disc speed down. Heat is the enemy of your wood, the pads, and your abrasive. This doesn't slow down the sanding process at all, and does a better job. I use a firm pad up till I get to 220 or so, then switch to a softer pad. Use pads on your mandril because they are cheaper to replace than the mandril. If you have to, start at 80, then 120, then 180, then 220, then 320, then

400. Some skip the 400. You can add 100 and 150 grit, but they aren't really necessary. The fuzzy spots that are difficult are tear out. Generally sharp tools get rid of most of this. This happens more in some woods than others, and more in dry wood than green wood. If you are having problems with dry wood, wet the wood down with a damp rag. Water, oil, or sanding sealer will do, then take a couple of very light passes to remove the tear out. If this doesn't totally clear it up, then resort to the 80 grit gouge. Of the abrasives out there, the only one I haven't tried is the purple ceramic stuff from 3M. I was talking to Mike Mahoney ("I go through about $200 worth of abrasives a month'), and he says it is the best out there. I might have to try it. The down side to it is that it is available only in sticky back and not in hook and loop. To me, this means that I would need a separate conversion pad for each grit. Another source other than Craft Supplies is 'the Sanding Glove' which is where Mike gets his. I don't have an address for them, but you can web search it. I am currently using the blue discs from VincesWoodNWonders.com. They outlast anything else out there I have tried about 2 to 1, and they are cut over sized (3 3/8, and 2 3/8, and 1 inch discs, mandrils, and pads are normal). The over sized discs work kind of like the wave discs. Vinces discs are 'Best Value' (good quality and cheap), and the 3M ones are 'Best Buy', longest lasting and most expensive. robo hippy

On Jan 20, 9:26 am, mac davis wrote:

What works really well is to rub some paste wax into the trouble areas, then sand. The paper will clog up, but you can get most of the dust/wax out by flicking it. Often I can just sand under lathe power (2" velcro disks) and it'll do it, but if it's particularly troublesome I stop the lathe, and powersand the tear-out, then resand w/the lathe on.

Works a treat...

...Kevin

Randy,

I think you get the idea that everyone has something that works for them.

For me:

I sharpen my chisel, speed up the lathe, and take small bites on the finish cut. Sometimes a scraper helps out, sometimes not.

I sand slow (450 rpm on my machine) so that the sandpaper follows the wood.

Generally I use paper in my hand. I love the Norton 3X. It is better than anything I have used to date, but I haven't used them all. Lasts and lasts and lasts, and doesn't clog up.

i do use the Sorby Sandmaster or other similar tools when I have to do a LOT of sanding on a bowl. I use wave edge paper.

I try to get ALL my sanding/shaping/blemish removing done with 80 or

100 grit, before moving on. After that, sanding should be just removing the sanding scratches made by the previous grit, and goes pretty fast.

After I sand each grit, I turn the lathe off, and sand by hand WITH the grain.

After I get to about 240 grit, I stop and give the bowl a coat of shellac about 1# cut.

then I hand sand up to 320. I apply several coats of shellac, then hand sand with 400 grit before the last coat.

OH, I found that when I sanded pine bowls, I had to run the lathe at about 1000 plus rpm. At that speed the sand paper doesn't follow the wood and scrape out the soft part of the grain. Before that I kept getting washboards.

i have a lot of other sanding gear I've tried and not liked.

Old Guy

That is a link (if it works) to a scraper burnisher in the woodturners catalog I just got it for Christmas but it seems to put a burr on a scraper that will mean less sanding.

Milwaukee tools have a 5 year warranty these days. How have they been for you when it was time to get something serviced ?

I have a growing Milwaukee collection. Bought the 1 3/4 hp router and the bearings went after 3 months. No Problem ! The rep took it back for repair and actually let me pay the difference to trade up to the 2

1/4 hp model. Well worth it.

Have a reconditioned Sioux/Milwaukee as well. Supposedly still has the

5 year warranty.

Lenny

Reed... I use scrapers a LOT, though I haven't mastered the shear scrape yet.. I haven't blown up a bowl yet, but have put some really ugly gouges in them when I get near the rim and let the tip dip down a bit..

I dedicated Nan's 1" belt grinder for scrapers... The table is set to the angle of the scraper bevel when the scraper is face Down on the table.. I've found that you get a nicer burr this way, though because it's a bit longer it doesn't last more than a few passes..

As to honing... I was taught that you hone for soft wood, to have better control, but not for hardwood.. Since my sharpening stuff is outside, I find that using the scraper right off the grinder works well, but when the burr is no longer cutting well, a couple of passes across the top with a flat diamond hone gives me a "2nd sharpening"..

mac

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Thanks to everyone for the information.... Just as I thought sanding is never and easy job...

Randy

Yep... Scraper is flat on the rest.. had a few disasters trying for a shear scrape... Should have got the Eliminator a long time ago..

I use my free hand on the outside, also.. old habit from pen turning.. (thank you, Dick Sing!)

mac

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