Spiral turning

Rod:

Saw the actual Sorby rep from England come to our local Woodcraft and demo this tool for an entire hour a few years back. They were sure they would be flying off the rack. When I was keen on buying one, I did a lot of research before going to the demo as it is not a cheap tool, and to really explore the full use of this tool, you need to buy the "accessories".

Remember this tool is used between centers, and is a decorative tool only.

The Sorby rep brought his own wood to turn all the way from UK, as he was unable to find a tight grained, medium oily wood wood to cut the tight checkering and small spirals. (He brought something called ""lemonwood"). Unless the wood you are checkering, knurling, or spiraling is really tight grained, almost defect free, and certainly without any swirly grain, you will have tear out you cannot fix. So much for checkering, I thought.

It takes a lot of practice, and some really nice wood to make this tool do the small stuff as the tool itself is actually a scraper, and in my limited use of the tool, it tear out as much as it scrapes.

On the larger stuff he used the big wheel and made some nice looking barley twists on a piece of some other wood, with a medium amount of tear out, and explained how the tool could be used to make decorative legs, etc.

However, here's the catch: The motion of your body and the density of the actual piece you have impaled onj your lathe when using this tool determines the tightness of the spiral. Since it is all done by eye, every piece you do will almost certainly be a unique piece. Even the Sorby rep admitted that it was almost impossible to turn out duplicate spirals on two different pieces of wood. Nice toy, but so much for spiraling.

Then he used the big wheel on the outside of a small bowl, using the tool at a right angle angle to the piece. This allowed the tool wheel to roll along the surface, giving the bowl rim a peened finished, kind of like some of the guys do with a Dremel. On close inspection, you could see that the actual peens were only dents, and were not cut smooth. No problem says the Sorby guy, we'll just sand those little jagged corners away. But after he did that, the peening was almost lost.

With all that in mind and the fact that the Sorby rep admitted it took a fair amount of practice to turn out good results, I passed. I had the wonderful picture of me trying to put a textured rim on a bowl I finished and how pissed off I would be if I knicked a defect (which I prize) and it tore out a hunk of wood.

Also, since this is some really blunt scraping, I wouldn't be able to use it on anything with thin walls due to the flex in the wood when pressing the tool into the piece. Couldn't use this tool to finish anything turned greed due to the inability of the tool to cleanly cut the green fibers.

Passed. But it is just my opinion. YMMV. Not a Sorby hater, I have a lot of their tools I wouldn't be without. Just not this one.

Robert

I have one and it is so difficult,, I now toy around making them by hand. Some magazine article around had a good explaination of how to do it.

John

snipped-for-privacy@sasktel.net wrote:

Thanks a lot Robert. I needed an informed opinion on this tool and your comment surely qualifies. I think I will pass on this as well.

Rod

Thanks for the reply John. Difficult at this stage I don't need. Do you remember the article on spiral turning you refered to.

Rod

Rod:

All the tools have gotten so expensive I take a really good look at them before I buy anything. New stuff comes out all the time (although this tool has been around for years) that is shown as something we must buy, something we have to have or we aren't even in the game. Woodturning is no longer a cheap activity, and for most the cost of the lathe is the cheapest part of the deal if you add up all the chucks, chisels, buffing stuff, finishes, sandpaper, hollowing stuff, specialty tools, additional faceplates, and on an on.

And the farther I get along this path, the fewer tools I use. I have a lot of tools, some I made, some I bought, some are excellent quality, some are not too good, and some were aquired as part of other purchases when the business was going away. But in reality, I only use about 5 of 80-90 tools I own. My original Delta set from 1996 or '97 hasn't seen the light of day in years.

When I demo or teach, I really try to stress that people use the tools they have to their fullest capacity, and not be afraid to make their own tools, a la Feltmate. Since the lathe tools are incredibly hard to completely ruin (although when deep hollowing I did get a catch from a loose knot that bent my gouge about 2 inches!) you should experiment with wild abandon with stance, presentation, and intent. Learning to use the tools one probably already has will save an awful lot of $$$.

Robert

If you want to do spiraling and other fancies, an ornamental mill will work with most any wood. At least my Legacy does, my first project was a very nice maple pen with a rope spiral - no tearouts - and will be soon working with walnut and oak. Since the legacy uses a router, the power to cut doesn't go through the wood as it does in a lathe and the surface is as clean as with any router work. No, it's not really turning but the results are great and, although the process requires much forethought, is fairly easy.

============================ Robert, Your opinion is similar to mine and a lot of others on this group. I started off with the $6.00 (on sale) HF tool set. With that I learned to sharpen, then found out how reshaping would affect the cut, them made some of my own, and finally, after the soft carbon steel tools were worn to a nub, I upgraded to a HSS set. I found thru all this that bowl gouges, chucks, and a lot of the "essential" trools we see in all the catalogs, are luxuries (but nice to have). After you understand that turning is all about getting a piece of steel into position to cut a piece of wood, then the special purpose tools should be evaluated on this basis. I know that George can use one of his "pointy gouges" to turn most anything but a deep hollow form, and Darrell can do pretty much the same thing with an Oland tool.

A lot of the things a texturing tool does could probably be done with a stripped down grinding wheel dresser with some modification and experimentation. A chatter tool can be made by using a HSS steel hack saw blade. A couple of pieces of drill rod can give you several different tools. A 1/4 or 3/8 in. mortising chisel becomes a workable bedan, and on and on. Purpose built tools are nice to have, but they should be evaluated against a "Do I really need it?", "Can I do the same thing with something I already have?", "Can I build a similar device for 5-10% of cost of the commercial product?" and most important, "Do I want to be the first kid on the block to have this thing?". If the answer to the last question is 'Yes", forget all the previous and go get one! FWIW

Ken Moon Webberville, TX.

Spiral turning? That is very easy to do. I keep unintentionally doing it with a skew.

Artak

"Artak Kalantarian" wrote: Spiral turning? That is very easy to do. I keep unintentionally doing it with a skew. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Yeah, but don't you have the problem referred to earlier--can you do two alike? ;-)

SNIP

SNIP

Exactly. When Phil Brennon was a guest turner at our club, he textured the rim of a bowl with a small chainsaw tool that he bought after having luck with a regular chainsaw. He said in a more experimental vein, he tried "Baretta texturing" on a piece and he showed us pics of his technique. He put the piece on the ground, and shot it a couple of times with a shotgun with #7s in it. And yes, (Phil chuckled), the piece sold. Someone loved the embedded silver metal beads.

In a broader since of this thread, I am concerned with where woodturning is going dollar/cost wise. We have a lot of retired turners in our group, and they either have disposable income, or a pretty tight budget. Taking that to the next step, some of the younger single guys have money and they can buy anything and everything, and some of the younger single guys have kids (which equals little or no money) and no bag of money to spend on tools.

I am keenly interested in helping those on a shoestring budget make the most of their turning endeavors, and really want some of those guys around. It is not a lark for them, and they have made a conscious effort to take woodturning seriously. Buy a Sorby roughing gouge at $75 bucks (*cough* choke*) is hard for me, but they literally have to save for two to three months before they can buy one. I have worked hard for everything I have, and they have too, but I am just farther down the road of life. Some of those guys are so greatful for the smallest thing it is almost embarassing to me.

And the older guys... this honestly hurts me. Some of those guys are barely making it on their fixed incomes, and they are turning on old Sears monotubes (yes, in the right hands they can turn our great work) and of our older guys is turning on a Jet mini that his family got together and bought him. He turns with a mishmash of all different manner of ancient tools, strange grinds, and poor equipment. But when I sharpened his parting tool correctly for him, showed him how to sharpen it, and then showed him how to use it, he just beamed. He must of shaken my hand five times before he left our workshop day. I want these guys in our club. The guys that want to turn for the love of turning, and the good comraderie we are getting back in our club.

But we need to keep the new blood, young and old in the club and we are having problems with retention. The same old guys (like me) somce very meeting and I miss hearing new ideas and seeing the enthusiasm of someone that is really getting going in this craft. But I have talked to people that have quit our club and found that they have actually quit turning altogether. They could not afford lessons, and since they don't use their tools for as many applications as one might, they feel like they just can't afford the tools they need to keep up. Not everyone learns the same, and they are frustrated by someone telling them to go buy yet another $30 book or $45 DVD to learn how to use their new $75 tool properly. Hence, they decide to quit.

So, since we are no longer affiliated with Woodcraft anymore on any level (they used to give members a 10% discount on turning stuff, and paid our whopping $25 annual fee to purchasers of new lathes) I am trying to change things. Before we had to be sensitive to Woodcraft by not selling any competing products or they would cut our discounts. Since they have cut that off anyway, I am trying to lead a charge forward.

The prez and vice prez and I are working towards having more workshops which have been rousing successes, hopefully once a quarter. I am wanting to give one of our monthy demos not to show how to turn, but how to make some simple sharpening jigs. Most here will readily acknowledge that sharpening is as important as anything else you do in this craft. But remember back to a time when it was a frustrating chore, or you didn't know how, and you either ground the snot out of your tools or someone took the time to show you their technique. I am also working with two different tool makers/distributors to bring in a line of high quality, good value, hard working tools for our group so that everyone can play. I mean hey... I want this club to be around when I am one of the old guys. At fifty, I don't qualify by a long stroke in our club.

Anyway, I'll get off my soapbox now.

And Ken.... HOW ABOUT THOSE HORNS!!!

Robert L. Witte San Antonio, Texas

Robert Knud Oland was saying some of these same things back in the '70s. He either designed or recalled some old designs for inserted tip tools for turners with the plan that anyone could make one in the home shop. I find that I use almost exclusively home made tools now with the exception of a roughing gouge and a skew and when my commercial ones wear out I doubt that I will buy new ones, just make substitutes. The reasons are

1) cost new bowl gouge $60+, new Oland $5, new Oland tip $1 2) enjoyment, I like tool making 3) satisfaction "I make it myself with tools I make myself" 4) they work as well as or better than tools I can buy 5) I need something that will ...... faster to make it than to do the 2 hour round trip to buy it or the week to send for it See the web site under making tools for some hints including those low cost sharpening jigs.

AMEN

TomNie

Robert, great thoughts.

Took North Carolina to develop the coach, you know!

TomNie

Whoa!! I just spent the afternoon on your site. Great stuff!!!

I really like the videos. This is what I needed to see and read, Thanks!

Terry Thanks. I really enjoy getting the web page up there and the responses have been great. Speaking of video, I watch one for about 15 minutes in the morning as I jog. Lately I have been experimenting with turning end grain and taping myself as I do so, then using it for the morning jog. It is a great way to see what I do wrong and hopefully improve it.

Darrell:

You are certainly the one that comes to mind when I think of someone that is trying to keep a handle on things dollarwise. No telling how many people your website has inspired to do not only many of the things you have so wonderfully detailed, but then to go out and do something on their own.

I have given your website address to many, and while only a couple have actually done something with the info, I think in time many will. It took some pictures and explanations for them to actually understand that the needed tools aren't necessarily the ones being pushed by some famous turner, and that what we are doing is not brain surgery. Making their own tools just never crossed their minds.

I don't want this craft to go the way of golf. I was never a serious duffer by any means, but now.. forget it. Only the well to do or subsidized can afford that sport. And what it has done to the sport? Mostly older, well heeled retirees play. I don't have any problem with that at all, but I don't want to see woodturning go that route. Almost none of my old buddies that grew up playing the muni courses as kids play anywhere anymore. Simply too expensive.

We need to keep all the old ones, new ones, and any of the interested ones. And like anything else, this is a dollar driven issue. Only if it stays popular/affordable will it continue to grow and evolve at this exciting pace.

And Darrell, I know I speak for many, many netizens here. Thank you so much for your unselfish efforts to document, organize and post your ideas and efforts.

Just keep it up, OK? ;^)

Robert

++++++++++++++++++ Robert, Very few bowl games come any where near their hype. This one did with lots left over! Since I grew up in Alabama, and was attending Auburn when they won the title in '57, they'll always be my guys. But living so close to Austin, I have to root for UT, also. And my wife, a die hard Razorbacker, was also into this one. I don't think many who saw that last 2 minutes will soon forget it.

Ken Moon Webberville, TX.

Dig up a Woodturning Design magazine. Winter 2005 copy. Page 62 to 65, Spiral Turnings by Bill Bowers. The cover photo is some plate with a dragonfly inlay on it.

J

snipped-for-privacy@sasktel.net wrote: