Which turning tools to go with?

Dan I like a high speed grinder with an 80 grit aluminum wheel on the left with a grinding jig and a 46 grit wheel on the right for rough grinding.

Dan:

I think a bazillion of us here use the Woodcraft slow speed grinder with the 60g wheel on the left, and the 120g wheel on the right. It is a cheap, reliable grinder that comes with wheels that are probably worth more than the grinder.

I used to think this was the only way to go. Slow speed grinder, friable (white, pink, blue or green) wheels.

However, we have had some notable turners come to our little club, and they can ably sharpen on anything that will turn a grinding wheel. A collective gasp came up from our group when one of them showed up with his own grinder, and it was a CHEAP 6" ($39 from Harbor Freight!) and he has absolutely no problems with his sharpening. It had one grey wheel, and one white wheel as he was too cheap to put on a new white wheel until the old grey one was so small he was hollow grinding everything he sharpened.

I swear, you could almost hear the sobs of the group as they thought of how much they had spent on their sharpening setups.

I have a 36 grit pink wheel I got at WC that I use to reshape my grinds. I burned my HSS tools with the 60g that was on it. Too fine a wheel will burn your tools as it takes to long to remove the material. I have different wheels from different sources, and I tend to use what is on the grinder. However, the reason I think most use the WoodCraft grinder is that they regularly have them on sale, and they area about the price of two good wheels or one really great one, so if you get the grinder in the deal (last sale they were something like $79) why not?

Until you get your sharpening technique perfected, don't hesitate to build yourself a good stand and jig for your grinder. Different jigs make different grinds, but a jig will help you with your repeatability until you get the hang of things. Check these out:

And don't miss this one for one of the most comprehensive discussions on sharpening from a real expert: Good luck!

Robert

What're you planning on using it for? If it is to be your only grinder in a general purpose shop setting, go slow and dry. All your carbon tools will thank you for it, because it will be more difficult for a moment's indiscretion to blue and ruin an edge. HSS isn't so picky, of course.

Other advantage to slow speed is - here comes the heresy - you can use the tool as its own jig with relative ease. Sharpen as if you were turning, by placing the tool on the rest, the bevel on the wheel heel first, bring the handle up, and grind easily to the edge. If you think about it, sharpening is about the same as using the tool on the lathe, only you're not trying to remove shavings. With as many different grinds as I use, it would be an exercise in futility to try and jig them all. Instead of turning my body or a single tool to all kinds of odd positions to make smooth cuts in various places, I pick up another tool, which is ground to the task.

I have a wet grinder, and it's great for planer and jointer knives, and setting up for the finest of squared edges on chisels and planes. Don't need that kind of edge nor the precision of the jigs that come with for turning tools.

Last, though you have read much about people grinding away vast amounts of steel, you really don't have to. Rather than assume the grind to be at fault, try the tool at different angles based on standard edge theory of the slipping slice. Odds are you'll find that grind the factory put on it does a job or two remarkably well. Which, of course is why they do it that way in the first place. Only after you learn how to use a tool should you consider changing its geometry. Make the decision on data, not hope, or take away just enough steel to freshen the edge.

Most important thing in a grinder is lack of vibration.

or a belt.. I do most of my sharpening on a 1" x 42" belt grinder...

mac

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If you're thinking about the after-market speed controls used for routers it won't work for a grinder since the motors are of two different designs. Motors that use brushes are OK to hook up to these controllers but motors used in bench grinders and lathes are not OK.

And, while I don't know of the bearing/shaft/seal design of the manufactured water grinders, I wouldn't advise a water trough with a standard bench grinder - if you do decide to try it, set up a video camera. You may just win $10k on America's Funniest Videos.

I'm glad to hear this as I think that's the route I'll take for now. I have a cheapie import grinder which has been fine for my bench chisels (which I pretty much maintain with a piece of granite and an assortment of fine sandpaper followed up by passes on a 1200/4000 Japanese stone). Have been wondering what grit white wheel I should start with for keeping my turning tools in order ..... 80 maybe ? I'm still waiting for my Harbor Freight turning chisels and HSS tool bits for making an Oland tool. Their website says allow 10 - 14 business days and I guess they aren't kidding. Not exactly a model of efficiency compared to most of the other companies out there.

Lenny

, I wouldn't advise a water trough with a standard bench grinder - if you do decide to try it, set up a video camera. You may just win $10k on America's Funniest Videos.

LOL So your the one who sets those situations up.

Lenny

Lenny Whatever color wheel you go for, I like the 80 grit for sharpening. 60 is a bit too coarse and 100 gets hard to feel what you are doing, at least for me. I also advise making or buying a jig.

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Dan, You would be doing yourself a big favor if you'd check out the local turning club in the Austin area, the Central Texas Woodturners Assn (CTWA). They are now meeting on Ben White Blvd. (TX Hwy71) just east of I-35. If you're interested, let me know off line, and I'll get you more details. They have demos every month, some world class turners who don't mind sharing their knowledge and answering newbie questions, and demonstrators from all over the world periodically.

Ken Moon Webberville, TX.

SNIP ............

================== There you go bragging about how big your belt is .......{:-)

Ken

Ken - we are going to have one of the distinguished members of that club come demo the Hamlet hollowing system next Thursday here in San Antonio.

We get Johnny about once a year, he is always a big hit as he is such a practical, no nonsense turner. Luuuuuvs that found wood, too, and anything he can do on the cheap.

If the guys in that club are anything like John (never met his brother) you sure have a good group there.

As far as Dan goes, he might learn more in one session of open teaching with those guys than he could teach himself in a year.

Robert

But cheap. And, somewhat surprisingly, good on the customer service end. I usually go to the local store, but they are not carrying everything now so I placed an online order. Order showed up after an interminable wait with one item short, but listed on the invoice. With some trepidation and the expectation of mucho hassle, I called the customer service number. Got connected pretty quickly with a human, told them my problem, read them the invoice number, and got told they'd ship the missing item that day. It showed up as promised. I was very impressed.

Way back when PCs were a newish thing, I had a disk drive at work that made squeaky noises. I was semi aquainted with hardware things and thought to bring the problem to the attention of my boss who was a VP and EE. He proceeded to pull the disk and crack the cover with the disk running. Now at this point I was very glad I had a backup, as I knew that particles of dust and grit and so on were being sucked in there. It was what he did next, however, that truly astonished me. He wandered off for a few minutes and came back with a can of WD-40. About that time I moved off the field and into the bleachers. Sure enough, he sprays the WD-40 onto the spindle - disk still running - with predictable results. WD-40 was sprayed over everything within ten feet, and the heads bounced up and down smashing into the platters. Scratch one drive.

Why didn't I say something beforehand? He was the kind of guy who Knew lots of things and just had to make the mistake on his own. He also provided a lot of laughs.

Do you ever watch the Discovery Channel's Myth Busters program? Way back in their first year, the guys examined the story about what happens when a CD platter shatters from excessive speed. I believe the myth was that the fragments can blow out the side of the computer case and injure you. As I recall they ended up hooking the CD disks up to a router and spun 'em at 24,000 rpm. In slow motion, the disks started to vibrate and get all wavy -- then bam they just disintegrated. Pretty cool but the analysis was that the fragments didn't have anywhere near enough energy to escape the drive's enclosure much less the computer's case.

Well, of course one needs entertainment, so you gotta have people like this in the world. I just pity those who end up married to one.

Quite a bit. Loved their 'Shark Week'.

Waaaay back when the platters were about two feet in diameter (1970) it

*might* have been possible. Then there was nothing but plexiglas between the disk and the world. But not with the 5" stuff. Just not enough mass and too much to contain the bits.

The white ones disappear too fast, the gray ones last, but the green SiC freshens HSS best in my slow-speed setup.

What they say about the types of stones and suitability seem validated by my experience. I use the 100 for the basic edge. If you're shaping the tool use the blue at about 60 for fast stock removal. If you've got narrow bits for Oland-style, last thing you want is the white crumbly wheel. It'll have a short life.

Electricity plus water?

"Hey y'all, watch this..."

Dan

IMHO, a slow wet grinder with a 10" wheel.

I can buy a minimum 6" fast grinder for £20 and a similar quality slow (geared) wet grinder for £30. That's a big improvement for negligible money. A slower (1400 rpm motor) grinder is at least £100.

Electronic speed control only works with brushed motors, not with the induction motors you're likely to find on a grinder. You could use a VFD (and I believe some TIG welders do) but that's expensive.

I've seen two sorts of these. The modern hobbyist machines like the Samurai that are intended for wide plane irons. They usually have soft waterstones on them. They work well, but need a lot of re-flattening and so stone wear is heavy. They're also a less than ideal stone for HSS turning tools.

The other sort are old industrial cast-iron grinders. They're available for peanuts on the surplus market, because no-one wants them. They work, but the stones tend to be coarser than I'd want for bench work and they're too inflexible for much else.

Do it by hand - it's not that hard if you make the deliberate effort to practice

nah... I would have mentioned the 6 x 48" belt sander in that case.. *g*

Unfortunately, I WAS approaching a 42" belt and had to cut back on the beer & bbq... *sigh*

mac

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