Intarsia in the round

On 24 Apr 2006 09:14:22 -0700, khoff spun a fine yarn

I understand the question, and I'm thinking very hard as to how to word a reply so'll you'll get it. I'm normally very good at writing (better than speaking, that's for SURE, grin!)... but my mind can't seem to wrap itself around the answer for you in an understandable way! Welcome to the group, BTW! Hugs, Noreen

hi, they only way I can think of is to knit on circle needles , but not join the rounds ,just knit back and forth as on stright needles then you would have one seam to sew. did that help any? some one else may come up with a better way. Welcome to our great sometimes crazy group! Jenny

I wanted to give the smae advice as Jenn ,,,, than rememberd one of my tstings , Not wanting to Steek it. I knitted in the round , finnished the last stich of the row/round , twisted the yarn around the last stich and turned to knit back ,, i did the twisting in the middle front and later embroidered a false buttons ribbon ,,, mirjam

I think that's the solution.

Here's how I think I'd do it: Start with _two_ circular needles. Cast on color A for the front on one needle. Cast on color B for the back on the other needle. Knit color A. When you get to the end, twist yarn A with yarn B and knit color B along its own needle. When you get to the end of color B, let that needle and yarn hang; pick up color A again, and purl back along the A needle. At the end, you will twist the yarn with the hanging yarn of color B. Knit or purl (whichever is appropriate) across the color B needle with color B. When at the end, let it hang and go back to pick up color A and work across the color A needle.

As long as you're careful to tighten the stitches whenever you pick up the other color, I think it should work.

=Tamar

Tamar - okay, I tried it, and there's good news and bad news. (Have you tried it yourself?) The good news is that yor instructions were very clear and it IS possible. The bad news is that it's very confusing to do (I had to find circular needles of two different colors to keep from picking up the wrong one half the time) and, at least for me, it's impossible to get the tension tight enough when connecting the two halves to make the result look smooth and seamless - the two halves are definitely connected, but they don't really look like a single smooth piece of fabric. Somehow the stitches don't look as firmly connected as they should. Maybe a better knitter would have more luck with it .

There was one other way I attempted, based on something I found online, which also produced mixed results. In this method you cast on the two colors ":back to back" on the same needle.You knit color A around to the back, join with B by knitting two stitches together (one of each color), turn and purl back to the beginning, compensating for the k2tog by increasing one stitch right after the turn. Then you twist the colors at the front, and knit B around to the back, k2tog, turn, increase, and purl back. This was also works, theoretically, but the front "seam" is perfect and the back one is loose and lumpy and wavers back and forth.

ISo, my conclusion is that it's theoretically possible with either of these systems, but , at least for me, the results are not worth the effort -- they're both more trouble than just knitting straight and sewing seams, and the resulting fabric doesn't look any more "seamless." I really appreciate you working out the instructions for me, though, and I'd be very interested to hear your results if you try it yourself. If yours looks good, maybe I'll give it another try.

Thanks so much for your help!

_Jackie (also known as khoff)

Jenny - thanks for the welcome! Noreen - have you wrapped your mind around your idea yet? I'm always happy to try another approach. Mirjam -- I don't think I understand what you wrote. Are you saying that instead of normal knitting in the round you knit straight across, and then joined the edges on each row by twisting the working yarn around a stitch instead of around another working yarn? How would this work with two colors?

Thanks, everybody.

I think it could be done that way, too, but it would be more complicated than useful.

=Tamar

Actually, I haven't. The last time I tried intarsia in the round, it involved six colors and was hopelessly confusing. Two colors seemed simple enough to think through.

I think the continual dropping of yarn, combined with the opening between the two needles, makes it almost impossible to keep all the stitches tight enough to be smooth.

On the other hand, I just got Donna Kooler's Encyclopedia of Knitting (2004, Leisure Arts Publications) and on page 83 she has some kind of intarsia in the round that looks very interesting. The diagram is labeled "Shared Seam Stitch". She says that

"Intarsia knitting can be used for round garments by creating a seam of one shared edge stitch that is knitted and slipped to the other needle at the end of the row. The direction of work is reversed (you will be purling every other row, just as in flat knitting) and the stitch is worked at the end of the next row. This makes possible argyle sweaters and socks without sewn seams."

She seems to think that's enough description to show how to do it. I think it means that the last stitch is knitted, but then it's slipped to the other needle so that it isn't actually worked on the return row until the _end_. And then it's slipped again, so it's only worked once per round.

I think I'd have to try it - I can't quite get my head around it just from reading it, and the diagram isn't very helpful.

I think I see; the twisted seam would be fine, but the other one is only composed of k2tog, m1, and that would be lumpy.

I wonder - would it be worth it to knit the combination flat (front-seam-back) with one seam twisted together, and then only have to sew one seam?

That sounds like the wrapped stitches that people use on short-row sock heels. I haven't tried it but I think it might look a little different from the usual intarsia twist. It could be worth experimenting with. I'd probably experiment with it but I'm in the middle of a sock project and I'm trying to stick to one thing and finish it.

=Tamar

I can't see knitting it in the round and then steeking *but* how about knitting back and forth on circular needles with a ball of wool for each of the two parts of the front and the second colour for the back. So knit colour A1, twist with colour B, knit colour B, twist with colour A2 , knit colour A2 and then reverse.

Eimear

Eimear, the knitting in the round and steeking is show in a book written by Philosophers Wool. They are a Canadian company in Ontario. Both Barbara Dowd and Sally knitted one of their kits into a sweater. These are knitted in the round and steeked. When you go to their website, they have all kinds of good information. I would think that the Loom also carries their kids, but I am not totally sure of that. I went to their 1 day workshop where we all did the knitting with two colours yarn, in the round, knitting with both the left and right hands intermittently, and weaving the two threads back and forth behind the knitting. Was a great learning to knit day for me. Are you coming to the Saturday meeting, if Barbara or Sally are coming we can ask them to bring their sweaters.

Els

I think I've seen Sally's sweater........a fair isle one? and I can certainly see doing that where you carry the colours along as you knit. But the original poster here wants one colour on both the fronts and a different colour on the back. If you knit that in the round the yarn gets stuck at the 'wrong' end of each knitting block. That's why I thought knitting back-and-forth on circulars with three balls of yarn was the easiest way to avoid seaming.

Eimear

Thanks, Eimar - yes, I have used the method you describe and it works fine for a sweater than opens in the front. (I did one just the way you describe, and a slightly different one where the two front parts were different colors, and they met in the center of the back with a two-color cable.) I was trying to figure out a reasonably efficient way of doing two separate colors on a pullover vest knit in the round as a tube (up to the armholes, after which the front and back are knit separately.) I have no real need to produce such a vest; it's just that I periodically get obsessed with the mental challenge of figuring out if it's possible. As I said in an earlier post, I've found two ways that seem theoretically possible, but in practice neither one works out very well. If I really want a nice-looking two-color vest, I need to do it the way you describe, or just resign myself to sewing seams.

I'm knitting an ongoing series of vests for a charity that sends them to children in poor, cold places. They have a simple, basic pattern on their website (warmwoolies.org) but I try to make each one a bit different, so it stays interesting. I'm not a very patient knitter - I like quick projects with a lot of variety.

Thanks, everyone, for your suggestions - I'm enjoying this group!

Right you are, Eimear I missed that, or rather, I did not but did not put it into context. You are absolutly right, knitting back and forth on circular needles would be an answer, or just knitting it the old fashioned way.

Els