The Death of Ski Sweaters and Ganseys - Long

Other Kim , we live in a rather warm country with a bit of cold ,, we found that when the children were small , A sleeveless vest over a sweater were best for really keeping them warm ... I have soft light sweaters which are really warm , nothing like 2 layers of soft light wools , Those of My age can maybe remember the TWIN SETS we used to wear !!!! mirjam

Mirjam. Twin sets are "in" again now.

HIgs, Kather> Other Kim , we live in a rather warm country with a bit of cold ,, we

Hi Aaron,

There are still some thick sweaters being produced that you find in the mall. They aren't as thick as the ones you're talking about sound like, but if they are done in multiple colors using a machine knitting technique called "full needle rib" AKA jacquard, multiple colors are carried on the back of the work, which increases the density and therefore the warmth of the sweater. I have one of those that I bought 4 years ago. It's too warm to wear in most places in Arizona, unless I'm going to some event being held outside in the winter!

FTR, I don't keep my thermostat set at 90 degrees in the winter, either. I set it at 60 or 62 and leave it there all night and turn it off during the day, and I am comfortable because I vary what I wear inside. If I feel warmer, I wear less clothes, colder, I put something on, because that's the way I was raised. I actually dislike going to places that feel like walking into a furnace, summer is bad enough!

I think that's a generalization that's based on an unflattering stereotype. I'm a Yank and a woman, and I hardly ever go to the mall. There's not much water in the desert, so yes, I don't go skiing or sailing, but there are certainly plenty of other activities I enjoy outside, hiking in the mountains, 4-wheel driving in the mountains in a truck that has no heater, and mountain bike riding come to mind. There are many others like me doing the same outdoor activities in all seasons like I do. Around here mostly teenagers and retired people gather at the mall, and not in that great a number. Since the teens aren't that physically active, they like thicker sweaters and coats, and they like them extremely loosely fit because one fact about the US is true, more and more (mostly younger around here) people are overweight due to the mass marketing of junk food and instant meals full of useless sugar and salt to make them gain weight and retain water. So the kids want looser clothes to hide their bulges, which is what a lot of designers are catering to. Many of the retired people around here usually go to the mall to exercise, doing laps around and around the place, so they don't wear the thicker clothes as often as I might expect, since I know many older people who feel the cold more quickly than I do. But these days I see more older people keeping themselves in shape with moderate walking exercise, so they aren't just sitting around staying cold all winter.

Actually, I think that's an incorrect assumption. I'm definitely not following the lead of any knitwear designers. I don't like most commercially produced patterns, so I make up most of my own. I've found that kids and many adults want more ease because it's comfortable to wear, in addition to hiding fat rolls, and I want to make something that people will wear. I don't want to spend weeks to months making something that someone will throw in the closet and never use. Therefore, I ask what conditions they are going to be wearing it in by asking "When do you see yourself wearing what you want me to make?" The depths of winter is often the answer. OK, next Q is "Inside or outside wear?" More often it's inside because most don't go out when the weather is that bad, or they'll be wearing more high-tech clothing in those conditions when they do go out. So I ask what temperature range they'll be wearing it in. I also ask about what kind of fit they want, type of neck line, what they feel is flattering for them, how thick a fabric and the drape they have in mind. Then, I take into consideration other observations. For instance, I tend to stay warmer in less thick clothing than my DH. He can get chilled at 70 degrees, so a sweater I make for him will be thicker than one I'd make for myself, but he must also have a loose crew neck in order to be comfortable wearing it. I also tend to wear more versatile layers when going out into extreme temperatures. He doesn't wear a hat, I do, so I stay warmer by keeping my head warm, so again my sweater doesn't need to be as thick as one I'd make him. He also has commented that he sees himself wearing it in the morning when it's colder instead of jacket in 30-60 degree weather (his specification, not mine), and taking it off to reveal a t-shirt underneath by noon, so that means more ease is required since he'll be wearing that sweater as a layer. He also said he thinks he'd prefer it made in wool than acrylic, which is something else I ask people, what type of yarn do they like?

So while I agree that knits aren't as tight or thick as they used to be, I think it's for different reasons than you've focused on. I don't think it's the designers' fault. I think technology has replaced the need for such thick knits; more modern materials and easily available commercial power to heat homes and vehicles has supplanted the need. If such technology were suddenly not available anymore, I think we'd definitely see a return to not only thicker knits, but the now politically incorrect fur coats that radicals currently say is "murder". Personally, I think with the way power prices are getting completely outrageous due to the gas price gouging we're seeing, we'll probably see a return to more traditional thicker knit clothing as people realize they can't afford to spend so much on what used to be so much cheaper, and when there is a demand, the designers will scurry to fill the need with patterns that reflect that trend. They are, after all, in the business to sell those patterns, and if they don't follow the trend, they aren't going to sell very many and no one will want to purchase more patterns from them.

Leah

Yes Katherine i saw it in some mags and in my last Belgium visit , and it is reasonable !!! mirjam

Leah could you email me privately , i tried but it came back thank you mirjam

Hee hee - just a personal preference here- I'm very not fond of bobbles, and won't knit a sweater with them. They're only acceptable on very slim people (just MHO) or little kid sweaters. On more fluffy people like me - eh - not so great looking. (giggle)

Shelagh

Did I say that I *wore* them? I like making them, though.

Higs, Katherine

In the old days, bobbles were knit on 4 stitches and helped to provide ventilation between the gansey and the waterproof oil skin (rain gear) worn over the gansey. Bobbles do work. Not as well as the modern moisture wicking (knit) fabrics and vapor permeable rain gear such as Gortex, but better than having the oil skin resting flat against stockinet stitch.

Knit very tightly, vertical cables provide similar, but less ventilation. Using Lion Brand Fisherman's Wool, the ventilation effect from cables is minimal when knit at 5 stitches /inch and significant when knit at 8 stitches /inch.

When non vapor permeable rain gear lays flat against your flat sweater, your sweater gets wet and stays wet. (Moisture from your body condenses on the inside of your rain gear, and moves into your sweater.)

Aaron

Dang! This whole discussion is very interesting and thought provoking. Aaron, you always get my mind wheels turning, and now Mirjam stopped 'em for a moment 'fore they started up again! LOL

Thanks to Aaron, Mirjam and all on this thread for the great information and sparks. Eve :o)

Thickness is not so much the issue. Considering only a single garment worn on the upper body. With the worsted weight yarn I am currently working with, knitting at 5 spi produces a thicker fabric, than knitting at the same yarn at 8spi, but the 8spi fabric results in a warmer garment because less air moves through the fabric. (The yarn band recommends 4 stitches per inch which results in a very thick but very porous fabric, and thus, a garment that can be easily worn in a protected environment (i.e., a mall) or even a fully heated environment.) Real ski sweaters and real ganseys are knit at a gauge that is tighter than the town drunk swimming in a vat of wine. They are nearly wind proof. Besides knitting tight gives you more panels of decorative stitches!

A garment, that hangs loosely (more ease) is less warm because as the garment moves toward the body, warm air is pumped through the sweater and away from the body. As the garment moves away from the body cold air is drawn up under the garment. Moreover a sweater with more ease allows more air to circulate under it as a result of thermal convection and it is thereby cooler. A tighter fitting sweater does not move and pump air through it, and is thereby warmer. A snugger sweater allows less thermal convection under it, and is thereby warmer. Thus, garments with more ease can be worn in warmer environments. Note the flowing robes of the Arabs or Hawaiian shirts. Real ski sweaters and real fisherman's ganseys are knit to fit snug. That is the physics of staying warm in a knit sweater. Hiding bulges and flab is not my area of study.

The last time I was in Arizona there was snow on the ground. We walked and camped here and there for a total of about 12 days. We did not see many other people. (Except at the bottom of the Grand Canyon where there was no snow!) We would drive though a town and there would be lots of people in the malls, but there were not many other people out there with us sleeping in the snow. I did not see many human foot prints in the snow. I did not see your bike tracks in the snow. I did not even see any of your truck tracks in the snow. So my feeling is, that there are more folks in the malls of Arizona than in the SNOWS of Arizona. I still believe knitwear designers would go broke trying sell real ski sweaters in Arizona. Heck, Arizona has to import its snowcampers from California.

However, that does not mean that we can't knit a few real ski sweaters and ganseys, just to keep the traditions alive. I'm doing one here at the Tulip Patch. Woolie is doing one, and she lives in Texas. (We have lots of Texans that come up to Tahoe to ski.) Who else?

And, by the way, it is 52F here in my office this afternoon. Just sitting here, I have to wear a real ski sweater.

Aaron

Aaron , i am happily joining your debate, and i am sorry that my years of experience in different climates as well as places with different heating systems, as well as being a knitting mother, And since i am allergic to hand made materials i always wear my own knit things [have only one bought sweater of Lamb`s wool , my father gave me when i was cold. Any way Thickness is very much the issue. When my son was in the army his Regulation sweater was too thin thus i knitted him Heavier sweaters, while my mother knited Army regulation socks in warmer thicker materials. If we take your example of SKI Clothing ,,,,[which many people never do did or will do ], Ski socks are usually made of THICKER wool and thus are warmer. Army male socks are made of wool , not cotton like the girls . in fact WOOL IS THICKER HENCE WARMER , thus to write in a letter about knitting that thickness is not the issue ,,,, IT IS THE ISSUE. Surely when it is worn , but also when it is knitted or processed.

In cold weather , most people wear more than one garment over their upper body. And in warm weather it is ussually adviced as well but not done everywhere.

I have seen old sweaters swatches that had a variety of gaugues i never heard that those Traditional sweaters had LAW or rule about their Guague being tight. i looked in my old `Ariadne` mags , i kept many from the 60s 70s , read several old knitting books,,, gugaues vary..

Have you ever worn a skirt ??? and where does your theory fit in with the Brave Scotish Kilt wearers ?????? The Abayas which you call Flowing roobes , Being mostly made of HEAVY WOVEN wool , they are as heavy as Balnkets and they do not flow at all , even those Abayas that you see on Tv , on which you based your idea that they flow ,, the very royal ones might be of silk or cotton , but usually many are made of English wool [yes the same one tailorsa suit with. Abayas are clothes that Absolutely Insulate you from the Surrounding wether. Climate changes in the desert are very extreme , where it is hot during the day might be deadly cold at night. The LONG abaya proitects you . Have you ever worn an abaya that you tell us what it does to the warm air???? And How on earth do you even compare between the Hawaaian shirt cotton or likewise manmde material that is sewn to let the body breath , and an Abaya that is constructed as a liitle tent to Separate you from the enviroment , keep out heat or cold and dust? I would read your letterswith much more ease, if you could stop adding the word REAL all the time.Real is a vert relative word, What was real to parts of those areas might not have been real to other parts....unless you spnt years researching , reading and looking through microscopes at those garments , as well as talking to older folks there who still practice their traditional crafts!!!! you can`t for sure say the word REAL. Throughout the centuries and Global commerce and history, it was TRADITIONAL to use local stuff and ideas. Than Meetings of any kind with other cultures quickly made that other `traditions` were incorporated into the local cratft world , both to make their own work habits easier as well as make their ctaft more Sellable. The knowledge to seprate the loacl tradition from the Later `added` tradition , isn`t so easy to get. Thus the word Real isn`t used so much by researchers. I see many people who have an idea to revive an older craft or what they assume might be a tradition, i respect it, but i also know from years of working around this issues , that keeping an open mind, will gain you more knowledge hopefully closer to the nowledge. One of my colleagues ... Dr Abigail Sheffer [ look her up in Women`s Work the First 20.000 Years" and other publications]came to many of her findings by Doing the actual work. You may assume things, You could try what you preach about. not one day but several times , and last but not least, Different people feel different about Cold or warmth, thus your own feeling of temprature and the amount of coverage you need is not the only Scientific Consideration. You should consider several people of Both gnders, of various ages ,,, and even not og the same family ... [different genes !!] than your ideas might be a bit more realistic.

I don`t mind all the Sceintific stuff you try to add to the various patterns, but PLEASE remember and you should also mention , that many of those traditional things , were knitted so becuase of collected experience, as generations of using materials taught local people that this was a better way to dress up. In another letter here you give the Bobles a certain Job of separating the rain wear from the wool, it reads ok , but it sems to me a NEW Understanding of an old tradition , thus if you want to be accurate please state this fact and add either that You or another researcher has ...."found out that ,,,,,,,the old habit of doing ...... resulted in ....... " etc.... mirjam

Shelagh you migh make some boobles on your sleeve cuffs as if they were buttons !!! mirjam

Hi again Aaron,

I'd like to see the patterns you are referring to, complete with needle recommendations and gauge results. I do know needle size references have changed over the years, as have descriptions of many yarns. I collect patterns and have kept every pattern I've bought or been given in the over 30 years I've been crocheting and knitting, and the patterns I have from 40 years ago may call for #2 or #3 needles for the rib, but the sts per inch in the pattern body doesn't vary that much from what you find today considering yarn choices. I have a "Scandinavian ski sweater" pattern that calls for worsted and #2 for rib and #5 needles for body, but with the #5s, the gauge result is 5 sts per inch, still rather porous compared to what you're talking about. A "Norwegian Cardigan" pattern I have from that era calls for sport yarn and #2 rib and #4 needles body, but still gives only 6.5 sts per inch as the gauge result, still a far cry from your 8 sts per inch. I think maybe your patterns you're referring to may have called for fine DK or maybe even fingering weight yarn originally to get those tight gauge results? I have yet to completely translate the patterns in the Norwegian pattern book I have dated 1955, but the gauge results on those don't look as tight as you're referring to, either. For example, to compare apples to apples, a Norwegian ski sweater pattern from 1955 calls for sport yarn and #2-3 rib and #5 body needles, and it says to cast on the same number of sts as the English "Norwegian Cardigan" says to cast on. Neither pattern looks as closely fitted to the bodies of the women as you claim "real" ski sweaters fit.

It makes me wonder if finishing techniques are what you're talking out on makes the difference in regards to your "real" ski sweaters. I do have several older patterns, usually for things like socks or mittens, that requires you partially felt them after finishing to tighten up the fabric.

Depends on where you go in AZ. Certainly, we don't always go where tourists go. If you were in your car last week driving through my town, you probably would have pulled over and stopped driving in the white-out conditions we had while we were taking a 2.5 mile hike in it in waterproof gear. FTR, we don't always hike, bike, or drive on roads where regular passenger cars go. We visited a local pond (mistakenly called a lake) when the road was partially closed. It's a dirt fire road up to a nearby summer camp ground, great for picnics in the summer, more challenging in the winter, and when the conditions are right, you want a 4WD to get there, which we did, and found a gate closed 3/4 mile away from the pond. We got out and hiked to the pond to take a look around and found only about a dozen hard core fisherman had also hiked up and hauled their fishing gear in to enjoy a very peaceful day of fishing. We did our hiking and enjoyed the area and the privacy, and left the fishers to their fishing. It's an area that you have to know about in order to find, just the way we like it. We also like to drive on fire roads in obscure places to learn more back ways around where we live, scout out areas to cut firewood, find new hiking or biking trails, etc. Cars won't go where we go after the pavement ended unless they are very foolish.

Are you on the coast? If so, then humidity is probably a factor in how cold you feel. I can feel cold when visiting family in Costa Mesa when it's 65 degrees right there near Newport Beach with a breeze blowing, but in my neck of AZ, 65 is shorts weather, and 52 hardly calls for your "real" ski sweaters because we don't have a lot of humidity most of the time.

Leah

Dear Mirjam, (and everyone else in the group) I am not trying to pick an fight, and least of all with you. I report my observations for the consideration of the group. Perhaps this should better be done in my blog, but I get more feedback here, and that is what I seek, feedback on the specific aspects of the knitting practices that I question.

I try to keep these posts brief and entertaining. Therefore, my language is not always precise and I do not try to cover all details and conditions. I try to raise important questions without being too serious.

I think you will find that I do my homework. There is workstation with a microscope here in my office. The old knitting traditions developed out of a tried and true knowledge of what worked to stay warm. I try to maintain a "tried and true" knowledge of what will keep me warm. (Come on! How many knitters do you know that ski and fish?) Who else knits the same yarn on 5 different needle sizes and then tests to see which needles produced the warmest fabric? Not the fabric that "looks" warmest, the fabric that really is the warmest by test! I have a great respect for those fishermen that knit fine blue yarns by smoky lamp light in stinky cabins in pitching boats without getting seasick. I have great respect for all the generations of women that knitted their men fine ganseys by the light of peat fires while tending babies and without ever writing down the patterns. However, those fishermen, fisherwives, and sweethearts, did not understand thermodynamics as we understand it today. If we want to know about the physics of these garments, we are going to have to figure it out for ourselves.

To develop this science, we need samples of garments that closely approximate the garments that kept those fishers, farmers, Norse bear hunters (i.e., skiers), and shepherd warm. The garments described in Gladys Thompson's and Mary Thomas's books written in the 1930s are vastly different from the garments produced by the directions in "Knitting in the Old Way" by Gibson-Roberts and Robson and all of the other modern knitting literature that I checked. Even then, Thompson's and Thomas's books come after the knitting revolution that took place just before WW I resulting in the development of modern "Aran" sweaters and Lopi yarns. Knit and test the patterns in Thompson, and you will see some patterns represent a purely decorative style, while others definitely add to the warmth and durability of a clothing system. For example, bobbles attached with 1 or 2 stitches are decorative, bobbles attached with 8 stitches are functional. Moreover, most of the folks who knit and used these garments even in the mode of the

1930's are disappearing fast. The last of the "Terrible Knitters of the Dale"* recently died in nearby San Rafael, California at age 97. I looked for commercial samples of knitting that approximated garments described by the oldest knitting books that I could find. I knew what I was looking for, I had skied in just such garments when I was young. Recently, I could no longer find such garments. Hence, the title of this thread. REAL ski sweaters and REAL ganseys are ski sweaters that ganseys that can really keep skiers and fishers warm. If it is knit loosely, it is not a fisherman's sweater, it is a fashion sweater, or a party sweater or a dinning out sweater, or a mall sweater. I have such loosely knit sweaters and I love them, and I wear them around town, but I no longer call them "Fisherman's Sweaters." In the last few months I have learned what a real fisherman's sweater is -- a real fisherman's sweater is tight knit and warm.

When I lived in the Kingdom of Saudi, I acquired (and still have) wonderful, soft cotton robes that were much more comfortable than my western clothing in that heat. However, in the too long time that I was in the Desert Storm Theater of War, I never got close enough to a woman to touch her abaya or even spoke to a woman that wore an abaya, so my knowledge of abayas is most limited. As for kilts and skirts, I have theories about how the system works, but I would have to do experiments to determine system thermodynamics under various conditions of use. I can tell you, that when we go snow camping, my wife wears a layered long pant system and not the skirts that she wears to the office. And, the Scots that fished for cod on the banks off of Nova Scotia wore pants, not kilts (and stood in wooden barrels of loose straw to keep the wind off their lower bodies.)

My mother said, "Thicker is warmer!" That is generally what I thought 3 years ago when I started this exploration of "How did those old fishermen stay warm?" Now, I understand there are more subtle factors. As I look at older knitting, I understand that those old knitters understood things that modern knitters tend to gloss over. My approach is to knit swatches of various fabric types from various yarns on various needles and test their thermodynamic properties. Then, I knit two complete garments and try them. After a while patterns of performance emerge, and they are not always what I think they will be. Then, the emergent patterns are compared to what would be predicted to modern garment/ warmth theory, and it is back to testing swatches.

I am extremely aware of layered warmth systems. The beginnings of this line of research was an interest in how decorative stitches in ganseys improved the thermal performance of ganseys in layered clothing systems. I believe that the original reason for the traditional decorative stitches in fisherman's ganseys was to make them warmer and stay dryer when worn under an "oil skin" which provided an absolute wind and water barrier. The more I learn, the more I believe this. Properly constructed, a tightly knit, fisherman's sweater is the very sophisticated core of a layered clothing system. I even suggest that the different styles of ganseys evolved to fit different local weather conditions. Fishermen in colder locations learned to use thicker yarn and more decorative stitches. Why do I believe this? Because the physics was obvious. And, it works in practice. (Mirjam, you argue with me, but have you tried it?) Moreover, a gansey does this bit of wonderful physics while being absolutely beautiful. I am not saying every sweater should be produced in the old traditions on fine needles, just; that enough "traditional style" garments should be produced that the old traditions are not forgotten and lost.

Most of the insulation in a sweater comes from fact that a "molecule of air" tends not to move when it is very close to a fiber in the sweater. The forces that tend to immobilize the air around the fibers in the sweater are most effective at very small distances. If the fibers in the sweater are not "quite close together" then a mass flow of air carrying thermal energy can move between them as if there was no sweater there at all. And, in fact, at the small scale of air molecules, there is no sweater there. So a thick, but loosely knit sweater is a poor insulator. (Speaking strictly of air flow, rather than of contact conduction.) In a clothing system, a thick, loosely knit sweater simply acts to hold the outer wind shell farther from the body, and it is the distance between the body and the wind shell that provides the warmth. However, moisture from the body will condense on the wind shell and dampen the sweater wherever it touches the wind shell.

I am currently working with a rather tightly spun, worsted weight yarn. When I knit it on the needles recommended on the yarn band (US #9), I get a very soft, thick fabric (~9 mm), and decorative stitches cause the fabric to be very 3-dimensional. It certainly gives a rich, warm appearance. However, this fabric is very porous and not at all warm. The same yarn knit on very fine needles (US # 1) produces a thinner (~4 mm), flatter fabric that is almost wind proof and wonderfully warm. However, It does not look warm. It looks thin! But put it on, and your outlook changes. It is warmer than the looser knits that look thicker and warmer. Then, I can put cables or bobbles on this tighter fabric to hold my wind shell farther from my body. The system is warmer than the thick, porous sweater and a wind shell, because my tightly knit sweater provides more insulation. My tightly knit sweater is dryer and less clammy because some air circulates between the sweater and the wind shell carrying off the moisture from my body.

Now this effect is quit specific to tightly spun yarns. I get different results working with a more loosely spun yarn. And, socks are a special case where much of the heat loss is by conduction. For socks, thickness is warmth, regardless of air flow. And, if you are using your hands in the cold, there can be great heat loss from the hands by conduction. However, for socks and mittens, high density fabrics can avoid compaction, loss of thickness, and thereby avoid loss of heat by conduction.

Certainly, a fabric knit with a heavier yarn will be warmer than a fabric knit with a lighter yarn knit on the same needles. But much of that is due to the fact the fibers on the thick yarn are held closer together and there are no gaps where the air can flow freely, not that the fabric is thicker. And, there are fibers such as cashmere, alpaca, and synthetic microfibers where the yarn fibers "fuzz" to closely fill all the voids between the stitches, and the air trapping fuzz actually extends out from the surface of the fabric.

But I have beaten this poor thread to felt, and since this is not "rec.crafts.textiles.felt", I have gone off topic. I am sorry.

*Yorkshire, England knitters that were trained to knit "Terribly fast." Aaron ps I submit to you that the number of decorative stitch panels in a gansey is proportional to the love of the knitter for the fisherman that wears the gansey. (I love myself, so I put lots of fancy stitches on my ganseys.)

When I was young we used to go skating in the winter. One day I couldn't find both of the heavy socks I usually wore, so I skated with one thin sock by itself and one thin sock worn with a thick sock over it. After a time (probably about half an hour), one foot was so cold that I had to stop skating and sit in the car to warm up. I took off the skates and the cold foot was the one with the layers including a thick wool sock. The foot that stayed warm was the one with only a thin cotton sock.

So I took off the thick sock and skated happily for hours with warm feet in thin cotton socks.

My theory is that other factors besides thickness are involved: the amount of exercise combined with the amount of blood circulation. The thick sock made the skate so tight that the blood couldn't flow easily enough to keep my foot warm.

=Tamar

Elsje my feelings exactly ,,, A too fitting shoe over the nyloned feet is cold and a bit looser fitting shoe is warmer because of the airy space between skin+sock And shoe ,, but sometimes i need a second layer to keep my feet warm. Depends on Humidity , raining or not windy or not etc,, since i am a walker [ no car] , i also need longer coats , to cover my feet, shorter coats won`t do ... mirjam

Hello Aaron, Leah and Mirjam

Great topic to come back to, and I am jumping in the middle with two feet. I remember my mother and grand mother knitting with the fine yarns to make the warm winter sweaters, or what my mother used to call Visserstruien. They were knitted from 100% local wool. Often this was wool from meat or milk sheep breeds, their were not many wool breeds grown in Holland. Meaning that it had a shorter staple and was not as good as the wool breeds. The yarns had hard twists to hold together. They were called Sajet. The needles used were fine (from # 2 1/2 to #3 1/2 European sizes)10 x10 cm =24 st abd 32 rows. In the Dutch book by Henriette van der Klift-Tellegen ( btw this book has been translated into English, I have seen it in our local library) Called: "Nederlandse Visserstruien met brie patronen" There is a whole history of the fisherman's sweater. Apparently originally they were underwear. Often the topcoat was taken off during work and men were working in their underwear. Over many years the underwear became topwear, just like the T-shirts were and are still underwear and became popular and are now worn as outerwear. The Dutch Fisher men with trading and meeting with the fishermen from the Shetland Island and thus also getting to know the Norwegian way of life as well, were introduced to the knitted sweaters they still wear today from the Shetlanders. They traded their catch for clothing, while overwintering on the shetland Islands. When you look at the knitting it is all done with fine yarns and thus many more stitches. However they also wore many layers to stay warm. Each layer holding air in between for insolation. We are talking years ago when there were no slikkers to keep the men dry. The fishermen did their own knitting just like the sheep herders did. Patterns were knitted the same by folks from the same villages, with small differences. The main reason though was to be warmly dressed. Finer yarns with many more knitted stitches also make for a fabric that is more flexible as well. Thicker yarns for bulkier and also for more open spaces between stitches.

Great to be back

Els

article , snipped-for-privacy@nowayamigivingitout.com wrote:

My husband could skate without socks and still have toasty warm feet You are so right Tamar, there are many factors to be taken in account on how to stay warm. Maybe with the fat sock your skating boot fitted to tight and you lost blood circulation in that one foot.

Els