Recipe for meat pie crust?

I'm looking for a recipe for a specific type of meat pie crust. It's quite
common in Britain, and I can probably make a guess at the recipe, but it'd
be nice to get something more definite.
Anyway, it's for the kind of big (9" or 10"), round-dish meat pies you
often find. The crust is something like a flaky pie crust, but made
somewhat sturdier with the addition of eggs. Typically, it's also a little
thinner (you can roll it out more because with the eggs, it's not so
fragile). One of its big advantages is that it doesn't get terribly soggy
on the bottom when laden down under piles of meat and gravy. When baked the
top has a *very* attractive golden-brown sheen to it (it's shiny, not
flat). Can someone give me a reliable recipe for this?
Reply to
Alex Rast
Standard pate dough is used for bridies or meat pies. Need to be started hot 375-400F to set the dough, then reduced after=20 10-15 minutes to cook the filling. Pate Dough 2, if made properly, can be flakey, but needs to be brushed=20 with eggwhite inside, before filling, otherwise it will leak jui =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Titelliste (3 Rezepte) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Pate Dough Pate Dough 1 Pate Dough 2ces and become soggy.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D REZKONV-Rezept - RezkonvSuite v0.96f
Titel: Pate Dough Kategorien: Appetizers, Doughs, Bakery Menge: 1 Rezept
1 1/8 kg Bread Flour 360 Gramm Butter 8 Egg Yolks 360 Gramm Ice Water 1 teasp. Salt 1 teasp. Sugar 120 Gramm Lard
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D QUELLE =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D HWK, CMC
Combine butter, Lard and Yolks. Add Water and dissolved Sugar, Salt. Add Flour and just lock in. Don't overwork.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D REZKONV-Rezept - RezkonvSuite v0.96f
Titel: Pate Dough 1 Kategorien: Bakery, Doughs, USA Menge: 1 Rezept
1 1/8 kg Bread Flour 360 Gramm Butter 8 Egg-Yolks 120 Gramm Oil 1 tablesp. Sugar 1 teasp. Salt 360 Gramm Ice Water
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D QUELLE =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Hartmut W. Kuntze,CMC
Mix all Ingredient well.
Add Water last.
Needs more mixing than Pie Dough.
Chill before use.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D REZKONV-Rezept - RezkonvSuite v0.96f
Titel: Pate Dough 2 Kategorien: Bakery, Doughs, Pates, USA Menge: 1 Rezept
5 cups Flour 450 Gramm Butter 5 Egg-Yolks 1 tablesp. Sugar 1 teasp. Salt Icewater as needed
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D QUELLE =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Hartmut W. Kuntze,CMC
Frisage.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
--=20 Sincerly,
C=3D=A6-)=A7 H. W. Hans Kuntze, CMC, S.g.K. (_o_)
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, chefcmcchef.com"Don't cry because it's over, Smile because it Happened"_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/=20
Reply to
H. W. Hans Kuntze
Look in the gospel of St. Delia. She has a superb pastry made with beef suet for steak and kidney pies. Graham
Reply to
Graham
at Wed, 03 Dec 2003 09:51:05 GMT in , snipped-for-privacy@chef.net (H. W. Hans Kuntze) wrote :
...
Thanks, but I was looking for recipes that use whole eggs, not just yolks. The crusts I'm thinking of definitely need the egg whites for strength and structure.
Do you have any recipes like this?
Reply to
Alex Rast
at Thu, 04 Dec 2003 00:02:33 GMT in , :
Is this a cookbook? A Web site? An old post? If it's some sort of printed material, can you please post a recipe? The likelihood of a local bookstore having such a title, if it is a book or other printed source, is remote, and I don't have the time to order one.
Reply to
Alex Rast
The strength/structure in a pate dough comes from flour/water, not=20 eggwhites. As a matter of fact, the dough needs to be a little stronger than a=20 flaky 1-2-3 pie-dough, but that is accomplished with the water, not=20 eggwhite.
No.
--=20 Sincerly,
C=3D=A6-)=A7 H. W. Hans Kuntze, CMC, S.g.K. (_o_)
formatting link
, chefcmcchef.com"Don't cry because it's over, Smile because it Happened"_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/=20
Reply to
H. W. Hans Kuntze
:
Sorry. I thought that, from your post you were a Brit and would know automatically that I was referring to Delia Smith who is as well-known in the UK as Julia Child is in the US.
Here is her recipe for the pastry for small, steak, kidney and mushroom pies. Since her recipes never fail, the lack of an egg shouldn't bother you but you could replace some of the water with an egg yolk without too much worry I would have thought.
350g All purpose flour (2.5 cups) pinch salt 75g lard at room temperature (6tbsp) 75g butter at room temperature (6tbsp) about 1.5 tbsp cold water
Use standard procedure for pastry i.e., work the fats into the flour & salt until mixture is like fine bread crumbs. Add the water and mix till the dough comes together, knead briefly 'til smooth and refrigerate for about 30min. Use a food processor if you have one. They make short work of pastry making.
From "How to cook" Delia Smith
HTH Graham
Reply to
Graham
at Thu, 04 Dec 2003 02:37:55 GMT in , snipped-for-privacy@chef.net (H. W. Hans Kuntze) wrote :
My results using extra water have never turned out well. The pastry turns out tough. Then again, I've never used egg yolks only as an addition. This could prevent toughness, I'll concede.
It's not always accurate to guess, but it looks like your crust recipes, however, would have more of a crumbly consistency - not that they'd necessarily be fragile, but that the texture would lean towards a bread or cookie once baked, more than, for instance, towards a fillo or lasagna. I'm using vague descriptions, I realize, but hopefully you get the general idea. It looks also that they're designed for crusts that lean towards the thick side rather more than the thin side. As I've seen it, there are 2 basic types of meat pie: those with a thick and almost bready crust, and those with a thin and more pastalike crust. It's the latter type of crust that's closer to the kind I'm looking for. Is that what your recipes are for, or are they designed more around the former type?
Reply to
Alex Rast
If a pate en croute would be crumbly, who would be able to slice it? If it was poor in texture, tough, who would want to eat it?
I have produced pate en croute for commercial sale (for sale to=20 foodservice, etc.), but I don't understand your description, although,=20 compared to Europa, the quality of pates sold and offered in this=20 country is generally very poor. Why pay attention to something, people=20 won't know or eat, don't have a frame of reference.
Generally, a pate dough should be like a pie dough, flakey, but never=20 crumbly. But not too flaky, because it would leak, ruining the product. And that depends greatly on technique in dough make-up, much more than=20 ingredients.
Sure, there is a lot of trash on the market that is more like meatloaf=20 baked in a noodle dough, but that's no pate en croute, even by a long sho= t.
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,
C=3D=A6-)=A7 H. W. Hans Kuntze, CMC, S.g.K. (_o_)
formatting link
, chefcmcchef.com"Don't cry because it's over, Smile because it Happened"_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/=20
Reply to
H. W. Hans Kuntze
in news:9446168DCadrastnwnotlinkcom@216.168.3.44:
Alex,
I direct you to the following two sites for Melton Mowbray Pork Pie descriptions and a recipe. I feel certain that this is the type of crust you are looking for. It is known as a "raised" crust, not because it uses yeast, but because of the technique of constructing it.
I bake a Melton Mowbray Pork Pie every Christmas and it's become a tradition in our house.
I hope this is what you're after...
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Wayne
Reply to
Wayne Boatwright
"Graham" wrote in news:tQuzb.552170$pl3.378384@pd7tw3no:
Graham,
From Alex's description, my impression is that a raised pastry like that used for Melton Mowbray Pork Pie is what he's looking for. Of course, I could be wrong, but when I began making substantial meat pies, this was the pastry of choice after much experimentation. Delia's pastry is wonderful, too, but I think more sited for smaller and/or thinner pies.
Cheers, Wayne
Reply to
Wayne Boatwright
Agreed! from his further descriptions above, it is obviously the hot water, raised pie crust.
Regards Graham
Reply to
Graham
at Thu, 04 Dec 2003 04:55:43 GMT in , snipped-for-privacy@SMN.worldnet.att.net (Wayne Boatwright) wrote :
Definitely not. I'm a big fan of Pork Pies, (unlike my sister who always used to slip me her pie at lunchtime during school when our mother packed them - a great treat for me, my sister's worst nightmare) but this is exactly the kind of crust that I'm specifically *not* looking for. My problem, indeed, is that I can think of no "hook" - no keyword that would enable me to find one on-line easily and quickly. With Melton Mowbray Pork Pie, it's like falling off a log to find the recipes because you've got such distinctive keywords to "hook" off.
The crust I have in mind also isn't the typical crust for Steak and Kidney pie. Rather, it's a kind you find on many of the other meat pies, the ones that don't have a distinctive signature "name" attached to them. My suspicion is that the recipe for this type of crust is so "standard" that everybody takes it as a given - the kind of thing that no one bothers writing the recipe for because they assume everybody knows how to make it - that would show up in a recipe as "pastry for a 2-crust meat pie" or some other such generic.
Reply to
Alex Rast
at Thu, 04 Dec 2003 04:32:45 GMT in , snipped-for-privacy@chef.net (H. W. Hans Kuntze) wrote :
Agreed. My descriptions were distinctly *relative*, not meaning to indicate that the consistency would be crumbly in an absolute sense, rather that it would have a shade more crumbliness, relative to what I would consider ideal. For instance, a standard "flaky pastry" crust, e.g. for a fruit pie, is considerably more "crumbly" than a puff pastry. It's not crumbly in an absolute sense, but only in a very, very relative sense. I'm trying to make a subtle distinction.
Yes, now that I have your term, I am certain that what you have is in the "crumbly" category, relative to what I'm looking for. I know what the texture of pate en croute is supposed to be like and it's not what I'm looking for. It's important also, I think, to stress that my filling will not be a tightly-packed, solid filling e.g. like Melton Mowbray Pork Pie. It's going to be somewhat loose, so that if you removed the crust entirely, it would become a heap (if a somewhat firm heap) on a plate rather than staying as a nice, well-formed solid.
Unfortunately, it would seem as though the way I described things led everybody to believe that my filling would end up as a solid mass, which was exactly the thing I was trying to make sure people *didn't* think it was going to be. Where did I go wrong in my description that led people to this impression?
Reply to
Alex Rast
This Delia, whoever she is, seems to be the type who'd take credit for reinventing the wheel.
Anyway, meat pies can use standard or special crusts as you wish. Below are links to recipes either way:
The Worldwide Gourmet presents the Meat Pie
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Cooks.com | Recipe | ALSATIAN MEAT PIE
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,181,156180-229203,00.html
Reply to
Static I
I don't think Julia Child would have ever called something "Julia's New Leek and Potato Soup" - and then presented a dull version of vichysoise served warm.
All over the internet you will find people who love "Delia's Basque Chicken". It's a great recipe - based on the old French version bt with some changes. I first saw it on PBS (I forget the cook's name, but she was Italian) about twenty years ago.
Reply to
Static I

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