Paranoia - on topic for the most part

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There is artistry in technique and there is artistry in color. Sometimes the simplest beads grab me just for the colors. I personally don't think she's talking about you.

I think it's a combination of both, but honestly, I buy what I like when I can afford it. I've bought from some well-known names and from some unknowns. All have been awesome beads, IMO.

I see it, yes. There is a BIG beadmaker on eBay who often makes things that I look at and say 'feh', yet the auctions go for megabucks and I'm left scratching my head. There are some buyers out there that will spend any amount just to own a bead/purse/bracelet/car designed by "X".

All I can say is do what makes you happy. I find your beads to be technically perfect, and yes, you do repeat the same designs a lot, but you do them well. What is eyecatching is your use of color in combination will perfectly executed styles. I just wish I could afford them and treasure the couple of A&E beads I do have. :-)

b.

I've been doing "retail" in one form or another since I was a teen (McDonald's, jewelry at craft shows, fiber arts at craft shows, Lane Bryant, Borders, and now beads). People are fickle, Amen! Some people are led by "names." Some people search on color, or price or featured only or only look at listings on the full moon. Who the hell knows!

I've had beads I thought were way cool not sell, or only go for the starting bid. I've had sets (and single beads) that I thought were terribly ordinary but well-executed sell for good prices. The first time I sold a set for double the starting price (years ago, on Amazon auctions LOL) I felt

I figure make what feels good, list what feels good, earn whatever you can and enjoy all of it. If you can figure out your specific audience, go for it. I'll cheerfully blame my ADD for not staying constant. I'll blame everyone else's whatever for keeping me in business so long.

KarenK

First, Kandice, I'm SURE she is not talking about you. All of your beads are gorgeous! I buy lampwork on Ebay for myself and also to make into jewelry which I sell. I guess I'm sort of a fickle person myself, because if I'm buying to keep I'll seek out artists I recognize (mostly artists I know personally whom I've met at shows or through ISGB or artists I've gotten to know online.) After the name recognition, I'm interested in color, then shape, then decoration. Right now I'm looking for a lentil set in deep teal and kicking myself I didn't bid higher on the one Starlia just sold. If I'm bidding for re-sale in jewelry, I'm interested in color, but governed more by price than anything else because I know my customers will only spend so much, based on past experience. If I've bid on beads for me and I don't like them, they go into the design boxes, or sometimes I re-sell them to another designer.It's much easier to part with the ones I don't like, lol. Dichroic pendants are not nearly as labor intensive as lampwork beads, so I don't really have the expertise to answer your question about simpler sets vs. more complex. I've found in jewelry designs, though, some really difficult, time consuming designs have taken a long time to sell, and sometimes I end up keeping them. I have one of the largest collection of necklaces for that reason! When I think about what sells and what doesn't I always remember ordering some picasso glass beads from a mail order supplier. They sent me the wrong ones, which I thought were really ugly, but it cost more to send them back, so I made some earrings with them. I could not believe how fast they flew off the table. I ended up ordering more strands, sold them all. I never could figure that out. Today's market is really difficult. I used to be able to do a show I'd done before and know I would make a certain percentage over the year before. But now it is such a crap shoot with the economy, that I'm not sure it's worth doing shows any more. I think this year is it, I'm packing it in. I always promised myself I'd quit when it wasn't fun any more, and it's not fun any more. Maybe I'm just getting old. It breaks my heart because I love designing, the process of creating something beautiful, but selling it is no longer fun. I'll still make dichro and maybe I'll recharge. It depends a lot on who wins the election. Please don't send a lot of negative comments my way, it's just time to face reality. Patti

Hi Kandice.

I love these threads! I know she's not talking about me because I just listed sets and they're still at $.99. :o) Not that I've gained the kind of name recognition that it takes to get them high.

But anyway....I don't think it's ALL about name recognition but I do think it has something to do with it. It's not that so-and-so is selling the set, but the fact that they've been around enough or gotten noticed a couple times so that they were able to build a following and get people talking. Odds are, the more you're seen, the more people will want what you show. At least, that's how I see it. If enough people are looking and wanting, the prices naturally go up.

One thing that cracks me up when I read those threads is that people (mainly bead makers) comment about the fact that things are lopsided or uneven. Just today I was working with some shapes and concentrating on making them NOT uniform. Letting the glass be glass and ending up where it wants. That is somewhat my style already. Basic shaping, but pushing the glass past that so it doesn't look too uniform or molded. Maybe some would say about me...that my beads are lopsided or not uniform. Well, um, yeah, I try to make them that way! Maybe others like how it looks being more organic and flowy. I think it's pretty presumptuous to think that someone is doing less than if it isn't perfectly symmetric, or whatever they envision otherwise. I can understand if they're talking sharp edges or compromised durability, but not design-wise. Anyway...that's my soap box on that. :o)

You said: I thought to myself, "Oh, crap, I hope she isn't talking about me!!".

I say, bring it on!!! Talk about me all you want, mention my name, get hundreds of people to go look at what you can't believe someone is bidding on! Get me more bids! Don't be paranoid! Sometimes I wish I were more controversial in some way, but I'm chicken to get publicity that way. Maybe I should say who I'm voting for. ;o)

So, I think name recognition is important on eBay since you have to be seen, but you gotta have a good product too...and "good" is subjective. I think longevity is a factor too, which I guess leads to name recognition.

As for breathtaking beads not selling well...I think that that is mostly where name recognition comes into play. I don't think most people want masterpieces in every bead. I think they want something pretty. Is that a contradiction? They want something to make into a piece they'll wear for a while or something they'll re-sell. Occasionally they'll want a masterpiece to collect. That's just my take. Personally, I see Michael Barley beads selling for good prices (in my book) but I wouldn't buy them regularly, except for a collection piece, maybe once or twice. And there, it's his name. If someone else was selling it, I probably wouldn't see it the same way.

Ok, this is getting long and it's late. That's what I think right now though. Hope you feel better soon!

My personal opinion, no matter who they are talking about, they can stuff it in their a$$. I don't think I have seen a set from anyone that I know around here or any of the eye candy lists that people like to make, that was "mediocore"(sp). Everything I have ever looked at, with the exception of Indian Lampwork (mass produced) has been beautiful!

Marissa

I've had beads I thought were way cool not sell, or only go for the starting bid. >

OMTP!!!

DITTO Cheryl DRAGON BEADS Flameworked beads and glass

Replies below...

After reading the thread, I don't believe it was about you. I checked out her auctions and I believe she should have higher starting prices... remember the thread we had about valuing your work and if it didn't sell at a lower price, to then up the price? By placing such a low price on her work, people will think the beads are substandard or that she was a new lampworker, just starting out. But her feedback belies that.

And you are correct, dear Kandice... by concentrating on colors, the sets you come up with are _always_ breathtaking combinations! I wish I had the beans to win a set from you!!! And besides, if it makes you happy to use the colors and styles you enjoy using when making beads, well... isn't that what creativity is all about??

: Soooooo, after reading the thread, do you all have any comments? Generally : speaking, are name recognition and marketing really a lot more of a factor : on ebay?

Not for me - great looking colors, symetry (sp?) and great pictures are what draw me to bid on an auction. Sometimes price, because I can make more of a profit when my supply cost is kept low. Name recognition means nothing to anyone but the initiated anyway! I can't afford to buy name recognition beads and still be able to make a profit when making them into jewelry to sell. I would only buy it rarely, as a treat for myself, like I did on a set by Bearfoot Art- one of his miniature dragon bead sculptures that was a set of gradated beads (born in the Year of the Dragon, so it appealed to me).

: For the bead buyers - Do you see what the original poster here is talking : about, and what do you think?

Yeah, she's talking about being catty and jealous. What I think is that she's frustrated and I also see that she's valuing her beads way too low. And I would never call _any_ of your beads sets "mediocre". :Þ~~~ So there. :)

Kandice,

NO WAY she could talk about you ... the word "mediocre" would never apply to your quality and great colors combo, all you do is pure lovelyness and so perfect !! Yes there's a similarity in your design, but so what ! if you like that and buyers too everything is fine !

If I can say something I feel, when I get paranoid on something, most of the time it's because I am judging myself severely ... you said "Sometimes I really feel like taking it easy on the design diffculty scale" and maybe you judge yourself very hard for that ...

About name recognition, I think that buyers are totally addicted to well know people and they buy a little bit of "personnality" of the artist at the same time ... Of course people come back to someone they have liked their beads before ... but it's also a fact that popularity brings popularity ... I personnally don't think that way in my choice of art or anything else, but it's reality. Just have to look at teenagers and brand names !

I understand that beadmakers who don't get the value they deserved for their beads are puzzled and/or frustrated about the Ebay phenomenon that is in my opinion only the reflect of society in general ... If I go in a store and something I find nice but not to go crazy for is coveted by 2-3 person, why does it suddenly seems much more attractive ?!!

arrghhh human being ;)

Julie

Only two things to say here -

First - she's not talking about you.

Second - this is about the eighty-second time I've seen this rant about the fickleness of eBay in the past seven years. eBay has ALWAYS been fickle and most likely, always will be fickle. If you want to sell lots of lampwork on eBay, then you'd better study those who are *currently* selling and develop something similar and market them the same way. If you want to be an artistic leader, then find your particular muse and nurture her unmercifully until you attract a following and have name recognition. That may make you a starving artist for a time, but if your color or design sense is sufficiently new, different and SELLABLE, then you will eventually prosper - for a time. Until the next *new* shape, color or artist becomes all the rage...

HTH!

Mj

Hi,

Well, for starters, she can't be talking about you because the beads she's talking about are "mediocre at best..." Your beads are far from mediocre - light years from mediocre. You know that, right? Your work is beautiful. Your color sense is wonderful. Your auction layouts are great. Are we seeing a trend here? lol

As far as why things go the way they do on eBay, well, I don't think anyone has an answer. When Amazon first started hosting auctions, I sold some garnet bead strands. They were 36" strands of 4mm beads. Cheap. So, I was watching the auctions and to my horror, someone got in a bidding war for the damn things and ran the final auction price up to $36.00. I offered a "no questions asked" refund when the woman sent me the money via Paypal, fully expecting her to exercise that option. You know what? She loved them and kept them. Go figure.

When I buy anything, beads, clothes, whatever, I buy what appeals to me. I don't care about the name; I want to see quality. In art, I want what resonates with me. Other folks like 'names' and buy accordingly. (think Kelly bags - $10,000.00 for a purse?!) If that's what makes them happy, that's great.

I wouldn't let this stuff get to me, and you shouldn't either. (I know that's a very nervy statement) And I also don't think any artist should feel guilty about having their art sell for lots of money. Feh on that! Consider it back payment for all the time you spent to learn your craft, market your art, photograph, etc., etc., because I am pretty sure you didn't have anyone giving you money then.

I'm rambling now....better stop.

Best, Deborah

vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from "Deborah" :

]And I also don't think any artist should feel ]guilty about having their art sell for lots of money. Feh on that! Consider ]it back payment for all the time you spent to learn your craft, market your ]art, photograph, etc., etc.,

that's like the story about Ford and Edison.

$2 for the part. $3000 for knowing where to look.

Nah, she said "mediocre". Your beads are not mediocre!

I quit reading WC, just because I didn't have time. Just as well.

Mine, too... :)

I agree. Color tends to be more important to me than unique design, but not always. :)

Same here.

Personally, most of the time, when I see beads getting big bucks, I am happy for the seller. It only ever bothers me when I notice that the beads are not as well made, but that's pretty rare.

Not perfect, but I try very hard! I guess it depends on the definition of perfect. My standards tend to be so high that I have to scold *myself* for it. LOL I do appreciate the positive feedback - thank you! :)

LOL - me too. Retail is my background, which is probably why I am decent at marketing my work. I agree - some people are led by names.

I know what you mean. I am the same way! I figure it's all just a matter of perception.

:) Thank you, Karen!

:) Thanks! I think that was just a knee jerk reaction on my part - I know I wasn't alone. Those threads tend to freak people out sometimes. I hope you continue to make beautiful things, even if you decide to stop selling. I know a lot of people start selling what they love, and it turns out to be something that drives them crazy. I completely agree - if it isn't fun anymore, stop the selling part, but continue to do what you love. I am fortunate in that the selling hasn't gotten to me yet. I kind of like it. :)

They drive me insane! :) Oh, what? You mean I'm there already? Well, it should be familiar territory for me then. :)

I know she's not talking about me because I just

Well, your beads kick major a$$, so I am sure the money is forthcoming. They are so unique and wonderful....

I agree totally.

LOL - You can completely tell with your beads that the shape is meant to be organic and free flowing. It's a different thing than beads which were meant to be round or donut shaped are actually lopsided or lumpy/wonky. Blah, did that make any sense?? Anyway - it's so very evident that your beads are well made, technically perfect beads which have organicly freeform shapes.

ROFL!!! I think I just got this picture in my head of someone browsing ebay and looking at the list of high-priced beads and saying "Look at those! Why on earth are they getting such a high price?". I just dislike it when people start threads that talk negatively about someone else's hard work - even when they don't make it obvious who they are talking about. Open forums are open forums, and people can get their feelings hurt. It's been a lot more obvious on WC, and it ticks me off. I know I shouldn't read the threads, but it's like looking at a train wreck, etc.

Oh, I agree. Sometimes it's completely about wearability rather than unique-ness. It totally depends on which audience you're targeting. Collectors, jewelry designers, hobbyists, etc.

Thanks!! I really appreciate the well-thought-out response. :)

ROFL!!! Tell us how you really feel! :) Thanks, Marissa.

:) Well, thanks. I don't know about her auctions - I haven't looked. I start my beads low as well - but that's a topic for a different thread, and since we've covered that topic a bunch of times, I won't start that thread. :D

Thank you!! Yes, it is and it does.

I love Bearfoot Art's beads. :)

Thanks, Linda. I am not sure about catty and jealous, but it does seem like those threads occur a lot over on WC.

Thank you! I didn't mean to turn the thread into a praise-a-thon for my beads. :) But it does feel good to see all these compliments. I guess it just depends on perception and people's definitions for mediocre and all.