2006 Projects?

OK, but where do you stand on the subject of locally owned businesses paying $6.50/hour and no medical insurance? Is it just as offensive to you that *their* employees qualify for Medicaid? At least WalMart helps their employees navigate the morass of Medicaid paperwork, doesn't dump the poor semi-literates in the swamp to navigate on their own as other employers do.

That's where I find a lot of people get on the moral slippery slope; they won't shop at WalMart *because* WalMart employees are poor and uninsured, but they'll go shop somewhere else whose employees are just as poor and uninsured, simply because it's not WalMart. They haven't been told they need to boycott these other stores, so they ass-u-me the other stores are much better than WalMart (when they aren't really).

You and I, Bratita, are educated enough to know we need to ask the questions, that when the activists complain Walmart employees aren't unionized, we don't automatically leap to the conclusion that this accusation means KMart and Target are. I suspect KMart and Target would be equally pro-active about quashing a union, but whoever's behind the constant stream of anti-WalMart PR doesn't have it in for KMart or Target. I haven't decided yet whether I suspect a union or the competition for all the publicity of WalMart's failings (while remaining mum on the competition doing the same things).

Ideally, I'd like to see every person paid a living wage and every person have medical insurance. But targeting WalMart alone isn't the solution. Fair means a level playing field for all, not punishing the richest offender while letting the rest off scot-free. Either require that ALL retailers (whether they have 1 employee or 1000) must offer their employees an identical health insurance policy at an affordable price, or don't require it of any of them.

None of my locally owned businesses pay $6.50/hour. If they do, they're not complying with the law. As it turns out, I don't know how much most of them do pay. Of the ones of which I have personal knowledge, one paid $12/hour 3 years ago and one pays $10 to $15/hour depending on experience.

If health insurance were available at the same rates for small groups as for large, then I might agree with you, but we both know that's not the case. I think you're barking up the wrong tree here and I see no reason to agree with you. I have no problem holding smaller businesses to a different set of standards than larger ones. I think you need to look at it from the point of view of the business owner as well. I don't know any retailers well enough to ask for details, but my sister owns a service company. She pays her workers well and provides them with housing at reasonable rates. She doesn't have health care for them, but she doesn't have it for herself either (she pays out of pocket for her health care), so she's not asking them to do anything she wouldn't do. I don't have a problem with that, since she's also not pulling in the kinds of profits that the larger concerns are making.

I guess that's where I see your argument falling apart. The difference in the profit rates of the very large corporations from the smaller ones make it more reasonable to require that they treat their employees better in my book. I know people will disagree with me, that's fine. It's a personal opinion.

Elizabeth

There are plenty of associations that offer large-group-rate insurance to their members. I've been approached by notary association, the women business owners and the home-based business owners offering my small business health insurance at a large-group-rate.

I see no problem with the small locally-owned retailers banding together to get large-group-rates for their employees, if that's your only objection to all retailers being required to provide insurance. Maybe the chamber of commerce could make arrangements for every small business in town to participate in one super-giganto policy.

Globalization , has taken off power and effectivity of many `boycots` that you try to do. Big manufacturers , bought their comptetions, most work has been sent out to where they can pay less for their product,,,, than bringing in Foreiegn labour , or illigal immigrants sneaking in and working for slave fees ,,,Affect the ability of this companies to behave like they do .... mirjam

I sew most of my own clothes , and than use the leftovers in my art, i also recycle my old clothes. From time to time i calculate the costs, i can make new clothes for 1/3 or 1/4 of their shop price , because i don`t calculate my time as costs.. And since i use bought stuff to the last thread , in art , in sewn presents etc,,,, it really makes an economical change,,, As well as wearing my own style , better fitting sizes etc,,, mirjam

Great. So what? You still won't have solved the original issue, which is that Wal*Mart *AND OTHER BIG BOX STORES* distort the market, drive smaller competitors out of business, discriminate against women and pregnant women in particular, discriminate against minorities, refuse to pay a living wage, often refuse to give employees full time hours, force some employees to work overtime without pay, use the size of their market share to negotiate contracts with their suppliers which have been known to force the suppliers to cut their wages, etc.

I'm still not going shopping there which was the statement which seemed to set you off in the first place. Part of my original point was that I don't want to live in a world where big box stores and chains are my only shopping options. I prefer to do my business at locally owned concerns because I prefer to see a variety of options in the market. Forcing little businesses to provide insurance won't solve those things, in fact, in the current situation it will drive more of them out of business. I'm not saying that we shouldn't work for fair working conditions for everyone everywhere. I'm saying that we need to start somewhere and concern about the effects of large chains on the market and on employment conditions is where I personally start. You want to start somewhere else, more power to you.

Elizabeth

I agree with you there, Victoria - we have the same problems over here. Many (especially electrical) stores have the scanning devices at the doors to spot items that still have the tags on - possibly as good, if not better, than a "human" checker.

Poor Jane was highly embarrassed, the other week, when taking my shopping out to the car for me - she scooted ahead, setting the alarms off. It turned out to be a CD which hadn`t had the tag removed by the checkout girl! I had just finished paying, and had the receipt. Anguished yells of "MUM!!!" from a highly embarrassed daughter! What flashed through HER mind was what on earth would her policeman brother say if she had been arrested for shoplifting!

I don`t mind security checks at all. We don`t seem to have "greeters", but I suppose they could be useful if you were in a hurry and needed to be pointed in the right direction to find an item. Usually the staff actually TAKE you to what you`re looking for - although, since the stores keep moving stuff arounfd, it`s sometimes nearly as difficult for them to find!

When Carolyn and her daughter Noelle were over here, they were highly amused, when visiting our recently hugely enlarged Tesco Store, to see a rather gormless looking young man wandering around with a six ft. pole with a sign on topsaying "here to help".

Wallmart have taken over our Asda Stores, but since we just never liked the "feel" of Asda before the takeover, and having heard the complaints about Wallmart on here - we`ve never bothered to try it since the takeover!!!

Pat P

Hey, I think you are right about sticking to your guns. I didn't buy Proctor and Gamble products for decades because of their barbaric animal testing practices. Mark and I are planning to move out of this country when he is able to retire. We're shooting for five years, when he's 50. I think he may be able to retire then. We are looking at Belize, France, (I'd love Canada but it's way too cold) or the west side of Mexico (which is getting more frightening as each day goes by). Like I said, I'd be pleased to homestead somewhere.

Everywhere you drive there's a strip with Pier One, Borders Books, Olive Garden (NOT ITALIAN FOOD) and the rest. It's starting to get really boring. I miss New York. I grew up shopping on Kings Highway. Everything you could ever need was all located all on Kings Highway. Clothes, drugstore, shoes, everything. Now, people are lazy and go to the one stop shop. I don't say that is so wrong for everyone, sometimes it's easier when a person has to use mass transport.

I don't know what the answer is. I have far more questions than answers.

LOLOL! It was almost worth seeing KC`s post to see such a perfect example of - er Bull-dust!!! And capitalised, no less!!! As we`d say here, rather inelegantly, "She thinks her S**t don`t stink!". Glad I don`t drink anything at the keyboard!

Pat P

I feel like I'm beating a dead horse here, but ***all*** of the major retailers have more than 50% of their staff working less than 30 hrs. per week, so the company doesn't have to pay them benefits. I would estimate that probably only 15 to 30% of Sear employess are full-time, and they are either management or commision sales.

...Linda

Why would anyone disagree with you about this particular thing. I don't think anyone can question the fact that large corporations are much more profitable and often pay outrageous dividends to stock holders while upping their rates tremendously. Florida Power & Light has just increased our electric bills by nearly 30% and upped the dividend almost that much. Need I say that I think maybe it would have been better if they lowered the dividend just a little and/or gave the employees something to reward them for their loyalty and efficiency.

I know that small companies couldn't possibly keep up, but hopefully they try to at least make their employees comfortable with that and are good to them in whatever way they can.

Lucille

Exactly! I'm not defending Walmart either, I'm just trying to convey that the other major retailers operate the same as Walmart. I just don't get why they are not targeted in the same way.

take care, Linda

As I said in a previous message... I'm not defending Walmart. I'm suggesting that if you are going to stop shopping at Walmart because of the reasons you have stated in previous posts, then you better stop shopping. Sears, The Bay, Zellers, all operate in the same way as Walmart, and they treat their employees the same way They all buy off-shore. I was even in one of these stores and they are still selling garments with ***real rabbit fur*** on the collar. I was shocked to say the least :(

take care, Linda

Just to confuse the issue, my grandson is temporary working for Air Canada. He works for something like 25 hours per week, and is classified as "permanent part-time". As I understand it, he is "part-time" because of the hours he works, but "permanent" because he gets the benefits.

"Linda D." wrpte

Because you have to start somewhere? Because if you can change one, then the others become easier to change--maybe even because a legal precedent has been established?? Dawne

I grew up shopping on Kings Highway too, but it was an outing for me then. For the out of towners, that was a lovely shopping area in Brooklyn. The prices in those small mom and pop stores were always higher than the local markets and the downtown Brooklyn Department stores, so it was saved for special occasions.

And don't forget, the area around there was crowded with apartment houses and a higher population in the surrounding neighborhood than most small towns in America. We didn't have a car when I was a young kid, but we could get on a bus and be there for a nickel fare.

I don't know when you were there last, but 10 years ago, when so many people used cars, you couldn't possibly park without using a lot and/or putting it at a meter and going back and forth every hour to feed the meter.

It's not the fun it was when we were young and the more expensive stores left and mostly located themselves on the Miracle Mile in Manhasset where the richer people live. As the population changes, so does the income level and then the stores must change to keep up.

Lucille

Of course it`s easier to boycott the big stores when you`re wealthy enough not to rely on their lower prices - in that situation, no doubt we`d all do it, but families on low incomes and many pensioners who rely solely on state benefits just wouldn`t manage to eat properly if it were not for the big stores with their huge buying capabilities and comparatively lower prices.

I`ve no doubt that we`d ALL like to shop at Harrods (speaking for we UK residents), but Tesco/Sainsbury/Morrisons etc., are more in most people`s budgets. If you paid what we do for petrol/gas, you`d "one-stop shop" too. In fact we try to use the car every other day, rather than every day now as petrold costs are so high.

Pat P

Pat P

The other stores you mentioned may not treat their employees any better but I am not aware of Sears or The Bay targetting any other stores in order to drive them out of business. I have a huge problem with Walmart's attempts to create a monopoly and won't shop there either.

emerald

I lived on E. 21st and Avenue P where it meets Kings Highway, so I was right there. My father owned a hair salon called Black Sheep on E. 13 and Kings Highway, so I was always up there. This was back in the late 60s thru the very early 70s. I'm sure it's changed, but I shopped there before there was a mall on Flatbush Avenue. What's it called, Kings Plaza?

Once a year my grandmother would take me school clothes shopping in Orbachs in Manhattan. Now and then we'd go downtown Brooklyn to May's and Gimbles and it definitely was cheaper, but have you seen that area now? Holy cow, it scares me and I grew up in the city!

I was using that as an example, not to compare to small town. Brooklyn is anything but a small town. There's almost 4 million people in Brooklyn. I was using it to point out that there once was a time when you could go shopping in stores which actually had storefronts you'd walk into and shop the windows. Like on 86th St. in Bensonhurst. My father's friend tells me it's all non-American now. Brighton Beach is all Russian now. We are giving our country away. Saudi Arabia owns TEN PERCENT Of American commerce.

Feh. Where's my Mah Jong set...I need to rest!

Merry Christmas to everyone who celebrates, and Happy Hannukah, Kwawnza and anything I missed. I will be celebrating Lama Tsong Khapa Day on Monday, for those who have no idea what type things Buddhists celebrate.