How long would you wait?

Hi Anne:

I learned the hard way that even though something is listed in an online store, it doesn't mean they have it in stock, it just means they know where they usually can get it if they need to order it. I tried three online stores that listed a certain color of jubilee that I needed, but it turned out that they all didn't have it in stock and couldn't find it through their usual sources. If you've worked with this shop owner before, I'd just check back with her for a friendly status report on your order. Listen to what she says and then decide if you think she's on top of your order. She certainly should understand the need for a certain type of fabric to begin work on a project and the desire you have to get started as soon as you can, in spite of the fact that you already have 3 WIPs and have no business starting another one...Oops! Ignore that last part, that's me that has 3 WIPs and is thinking of starting a fourth because it keeps calling to me from the depths of my stash...

Patty

anne wrote:

IMHO - If she's saying "Do you still want it?", go elsewhere - it's not on her list. Been there- done that.

Patty said

Good point.

I'm a monogamous stitcher ;-) IOW, I usually work on one project at a time. As I approach the finish line, I start to agonize over which of the many things I'd like to do should be started next.

My current WIP is Wild About Pansies

That reminds me of my grandmother's "china shelf" in her kitchen. Hers were all shamrocks, but the lace edge is the same.

Cheryl

That's a very beautiful piece of embroidery. From your description: surface embroidery. :-) some might call it "stamped" embroidery. Crewel is reserved for embroidery worked with crewel wool. Since you mentioned using wool, then it's a crewel embroidery piece. :-)

Dianne

anne wrote:

I agree with Fran. It is not you who is rude, it is that shopkeeper who is not being honest with you. I waited once for a very special rare kit by Erica Wilson but this is a common material easily bought. I say you were the kind one here and should go elsewhere.

Crewel is not exclusively wool thread - I have done pieces that combined wool and silk threads, it's very attractive but still called crewel.

That's getting into sticky territory. I just worked on a Jacobean-style piece worked in metallics, rayons, cottons. Stitches are similar or almost similar to those worked in crewel Jacobean-style works. Some people refer to these examples as "crewel", but they're not. It's the "style" that's important here, not the threads.

Whenever you mix crewel threads with other threads, you can no longer refer to it as crewel embroidery. It is either mixed media, a style (if there is a style associated with the embroidery), or simply surface embroidery.

Crewel means crewel wool. If you add silk, it's no longer exclusively crewel embroidery.

I know. I know. It can be tempting to "shorten" the phrase we use for embroidery. But there's nothing wrong with simply saying it's "embroidery", and if someone asks, you can mention the fibers used (in your case worked in silk and wool, or crewel and silk).

Dianne

Anne,

not as long as two months! and especially not as long as me having to call to check the status.

and some brick and mortars wonder why they are not first choice. sheesh. I once asked a shop owner who is otherwise a very good provider if she had or could get some colored congress cloth for me to look at. I wanted to check threads for a project against colours as I had never seen the coloured. She said sure, she had been thinking of getting some anyway. We were buying in a group for a group project and I wanted a lavender background for the threads I chose. I did buy the white congress as a just in case. It so happened that I found the lavender a week later at another shop and purchased it. I never got a call saying it was in, but about 3 months later I went to the same store and saw the fabric there, uncut. I am sure she thinks that she ordered it for me, but I never made a commitment to buy, and the shop owner knew that we were starting the project in a few weeks.

Maybe I should have called the first shop owner, but I didn't feel obligated as I only wanted to check something out, and she indicated that this was something she wanted to get anyway.

Cheers, SpringPam

You may regard it as sticky territory but let me assure you, today people refer to the technique as crewel embroidery even if it is not entirely wool. That may be incorrect by olden day verbiage, but correct by modern.

I'm afraid I do not get hung up on terminology.

"Olden day verbiage" has nothing to do with it. Crewel is wool. If a piece is all 2-ply wool, it's crewel embroidery. If it's tapestry wool, it's wool embroidery. If it's mixed, it's embroidery. You know . . . that dreaded word nobody wants to say anymore because it's "old fashioned" and conjures up an image of grannies making lazy daisy stitches.

You can't change the name of something just because you want to. I don't care how many refer to it incorrectly. Just because a ton of people think 2 + 2 = 6 doesn't mean that's correct. :-)

We got into this problem when we called canvas embroidery "tapestry" (woven cloth) or "needlepoint" (needlelace). It's neither. Finally, after more than a hundred years of misuse, we're getting it right: canvas embroidery. :-)

So, ya may as well learn it right to begin with. :-)

Another good example is the term "evenweave". When what you mean to say is even, plain weave. Wouldn't people rather use the right word? It's how we convey pictures in other peoples minds so that we know what we're talking about.

Dianne

I can assure you I have no visions of grannies making lazy daisy stitches. Though I am not sure what would be wrong about them doing so if that is what it pleased them to do.

It may not be correct, but just like language being a living thing which is constantly changing, so I think is the terminology of stitching. One may rant against the change as much as one wants but popular usage will win out.

Tapestry is woven, therefore nothing to do with canvas and needlepoint.

But a large portion of the general population has seen these types of embroideries and it turns them off. That's why we're here to make sure they know there's lots more about embroidery. :-)

I have no objection to anyone working simple patterns if it pleases them.

Actually, popular useage be damned. It comes from ignorance. I suspect what you are doing is mostly crewel with a little silk thrown in for good measure. Wool-on-wool embroidery uses silk and metallics and it's still called wool-on-wool.

So, you're probably correct in referring to it as crewel embroidery. I'm just stepping up to the plate for fun and games and to educate. :-)

But tapestry is/was a word to describe canvas embroidery for over a hundred years. :-) That was my point. Dianne

It had the reverse effect on me. My grandmother and her daughters filled their houses with everyday, in use, items that they decorated quickly and simply. They didn't have time to be elaborate with an item that was going to be used for a brief period of time and then replaced.

Towels and sheets were plain white and they would add the lazy daisies to pillow slips (cases) just to quickly brighten them or co-ordinate them to colours in the room.

Seeing all these lazy daisies and other common stitches turning up everywhere sparked my interest in doing some of them.

Trying to force more upon people often does not work. Halifax had a wonderful symphony orchestra for years. Then in the 80s along came a conductor who decided that the audience needed to be educated and learn to like more pieces, modern mostly. It was a resounding disaster and the symphony is still recovering from the crash. The last time I attended the winner of that years Gershwin Award was playing and said conductor chose that he play Symphony in F (which I like) but I wanted his rendition of Rhapsody in Blue. So I walked out and never walked in again.

There's a real danger in trying to 'educate' people - they can grow resentful and take off. They have to want to find out for themselves first, then is the time to answer the questions.

The world is made up of all kind of people. They aren't just like me, nor just like you. I try to think of all the shades of gray out there.

I started out doing the very same thing, then got serious about 15 years ago. Actually, longer than that, but it was brief, and the whim didn't last. I do remember having a longing to learn more at the time. Then I finally got very interested in learning more. I knew there had to be something more than lazy daisies and stem stitch. Actually, it was a Weldon's encyclopedia which opened my eyes. I looked at one of those Southern Belle gals and said: "Oh, you mean THIS is the way it can look?" Moral: If you aren't shown "more", you probably won't think there's "more".

Where I used to live I was associated with a symphony orchestra. The conductor had children's concerts, but they were way above children's heads. I begged him to have something "lighter" so I could bring my piano students. I hear you. But that's not really the issue in this discussion.

Some will . . . some won't. There's a vast audience here. Some consider me "huffy" and "snotty", other's understand and are eager to learn. Just two days ago someone wrote about a class I offer and said, "The directions call for a fat quarter, but my book says a fat quarter is 18" x 22", and that's not enough material."

How DARE that author do that. That's not helpful. It's plain WRONG! There's a lot of WRONG stuff out there, by those who SHOULD know better and don't. Especially in this biz.

Sometimes. Sometimes not. I felt this discussion was a perfect place to use the right terminology and explain why. The reader can take it or leave it. But I'd rather someone point out the error of my mindset than to cling to myths or misunderstandings just because a "so and so" said so. Dianne

So, how big *is* your fat quarter?

I realise that it depends on the width of the fabric, but for most people -and especially for people coming from a quilting background-,

If you're going to use the terminology in a different way, perhaps you should say "a fat quarter (18"x30") ". Or perhaps not use a term which varies. Say 18x30, not "fat quarter".

-- Jenn Ridley : snipped-for-privacy@chartermi.net WIP: Art Stitch Rose Trio, Emperor's Coat, Carousel, Romance Most recently Finished: Halloween Circle, Always be a Wildflower, FrankenFlora

That isn't the issue, but it's 45 x 18 at present. That may change slightly through time.

That's beside the point. For an author/designer to put in a book that a fat quarter is 22x18 is simply awful. THAT'S what confused the embroiderer, not the phrase fat quarter. She was looking that up and got the wrong answer by someone publishing who should have known better.

There's no "different way". A fat quarter is half the width and 18 inches long. Some fabric is 36" wide, some 45, some 48, some 52, some

Blanketing comes in different widths at different times. A fat quarter is ample, no matter the width. So, I couldn't use an exact measurement. And what difference does it make that the term has a conclusion which varies? You're missing my point. :-)

It's not the "not knowing" that offended me. I'm here to answer questions when needed. It was an author/designer saying that a fat quarter is 22x18. He/she should have their hand slapped. :-) Are you defending this error in judgment?

Dianne

That's not a fat quarter. That's a half yard of 45" fabric. If you're using a non standard fabric width (90" is not a common size), you need to be specific. Don't assume that anyone picking up your book will *know* that you mean a fat quarter of 90" fabric.

Did you say what *your* fat quarter was, or did you just *assume* that everyone who read your book would know that you mean a fat quarter of

What field was this book published in? If the stitcher's reference was a quilting book, and it said something like "a fat quarter is usually 22x18", would this be wrong?

Did you, anywhere in your instructions, say "Blanket fabric comes in many widths. A fat quarter of any of them should be sufficient. A quilter's fat quarter (18x22) won't be.".

You cannot *assume* that everyone knows everything that you do.

-- Jenn Ridley : snipped-for-privacy@chartermi.net WIP: Art Stitch Rose Trio, Emperor's Coat, Carousel, Romance Most recently Finished: Halloween Circle, Always be a Wildflower, FrankenFlora