OT: Happy Birthday Lucille !

snip

It does seem to me that an awful lot of the younger people I know are on what you call anti-anxiety medication. Doesn't that alter your thinking and if it does that, isn't that a mind altering drug? Doesn't your brain control your behaviour?

I'm not thinking of something as devestatingly dangerous as LSD was, but whether it is as serious as that or not, it does change the way you react to things.

I grew up in a world that was stressful and I did it without drugs. For me, calming was by doing, whether that was reading, or needlework or just scrubbing something. That was my way and the way many of my generation handled things. There were always seriously ill people who needed lithium or something as drastic as that, but for everyday problems we were told to get over it and go on with our lives.

I'm not a doctor but it seems to me that the instant gratification and comfort afforded by those drugs are going to create more problems in the future than they're worth. I'm sure you agree that there are side effects to most chemicals and some of them don't show up for years. Plus, what are the people who are depending on the calm, easy existence on drugs going to do when they actually have to cope with life without help?

I'm not worried about any generation in particular and I do believe that most people grow up at some point and lead productive and relatively happy lives, but I do worry that they are going through life without learning that (to use an old cliche) Life's a Beach and it aint easy to grow up.

Lucille

Snipped in the interests of brevity

You have many opinions on nearly every subject that I do not comment upon, but yes I was offended (probably along with the others my age) to be dismissed summarily because that is how you see us.

"Lucille" ,in rec.crafts.textiles.needleworkwrote: and entertained us with

Thank you Lucille, I put it badly, Prozac et al was exactly what I meant, not recreational drugs like LSD - anyone using those is a fool anyway and it won't probably make much difference to them !

Psychiatrists, Children and Drug Industry's Role By GARDINER HARRIS, BENEDICT CAREY and JANET ROBERTS The intersection of money and medicine has become one of the most contentious issues in psychiatry.

On 5/10/07 10:45 AM, "Lucille" wrote:

Different parts of your brain are affected by different drugs. The modern drugs are much more specific as to how they work when compared to things like prozac or lithium. Mood enhancers - things that just dull you out, aren't what say all anti-depressants do now - though I think that's what many of us think of. As in being zonked out by pain-killers.

Well, sure - else what would be the point. But, for people who suffer from chemical imbalances - such as true depression, or some anxiety problems - the drugs work to correct the imbalance. Years ago the chemical imbalances weren't able to be known, hence behavious therapy. Some things need behaviour therapy as well, while other things can be treated with both. Some treatments have stayed the same for years. The idea with a lot of the drugs that are prescribed for anziety type issues is that the drug specifially works on that chemical imbalance, and doesn't affect your general judgement - when taken properly.

I have 2 friends that take anti-anxiety drugs - one of whom I've known about for years. She also sees a therapist. If you didn't know that she was on medication, you wouldn't know it. But, the only times I've seen her acting a bit hazey, or not caring - in a dulled out way - she took an pill before she was due, and did it intentionally as she was going to be in situation that she was just feeling way to stressed about. OTOH, the last several months she has been weaned off her stronger drug, and now only takes one of the medications, and working with her docs has lowered that.

My other friend, I had no idea that she took an anti-anxiety drug. But, she is an intelligent woman, with a typically full plate, plus going to school doing a mid-life career change, and her personality is very concerned about things, she's very self-critical, and even on medication seems to worry about things quite a bit. So, while I was surprised when she told me, we then talked about her having panic attacks when she was off the medication.

People who take drugs just to be dulled out will always have problems with their coping mechanisms. And if you're abusing drugs you've got a bad doctor who's irresponsible. I don't personally know anyone except my SIL in FL who would fall into this case. She likes the drama of having to go take a pill, and I know would fake migraines to get a shot of demerol in years gone by. I agree - you do have to learn how to cope with life, and get on with it. Which is why I'm regularly lobbying my DH and mean SIL to do something with the Crazy SIL - who needs therapy to deal with her incredible bundle of serious neuroses, likely bi=polar disorder, manic-depressive episodes, and general being overwhelmed by life. She finally started taking a drug that her gp had given her - after refusing to for a year because "it would interfere with her drinking" . She's a classic case of someone that if you just met her would think is a bit quirky, maybe edgy, high-strung. But, the more you know her - the obsessing, worrying about things that to most of us are the little nothings of everyday life will start to become evident. The doctor and I convinced her that it would help her to feel better, and at least not be so negatively affected by the long little sunlight of winter in Chicago. Takes her drug - works great - it's used as an anti-depressant, and general anti-anxiety treatment - specific actions in the CNS ( selective seritonin re-uptake inhibitor). She's much more balanced, coherent, and generally happier or pleasant on the drug. Goes off - and having little fits of temper, paranoia, etc. Took herself off the drug for a few months, had to be convinced to be back on it. I think she seriously needs therapy as well - but at least her gp was able to prescribe something basic that helps because she cannot acknowledge her issues, let alone deal with them.

There are some things that having a drug to deal with - such as clinical depression, or bi-polar disorder - helps people to have bearable lives. Some folks without this are in the non-functional phase, or musch less functional.

I think what many of us fear are those people who just take drugs so they don't have to think or be concerned with life. But, I believe that treating things that are caused by a chemical malfunction is a good thing - done properly, with cautions and control. There are many people that in the past would've been sitting in the corner having a dark day, untreated or thought of as just a bit off who can be and are treated now. And there are some things that need both drugs and therapy.

But, honestly, I guess it depends on where you are, what the prevalence of drug abuse and type is.

I think there are some people that never learn that. I think now, with the current younger generation they're learning some of that later rather than sooner, in some respects.

Ellice

I wasn't dismissing anyone, based on age, at all. Merely making an observation. Sorry if you took it as dismissive. I guess the finding offense to be taken is what I'd expect from you.

Honestly, do you not see any differences when you think back over time comparing generations past, expected behaviours, decorum, and ages? It seems to me to be a progression as life expectancies have changed, and the general living standards, that what we do, at what stages, ages, is a dynamic thing. That's all.

ellice

I think in some odd way we're agreeing. I have a great deal of respect for the way drugs can allow some people to lead productive lives. As a matter of fact, one of my very close and very dear friends is Bi-Polar. She was hospitalized several times in the past and thought she was going to have to spend her life institutionalized but, fortunately, she found the right doctors and with the help of heavy duty drugs, she can live a relatively calm life. Every few years she must check herself into Johns Hopkins to reevaluate her drug protocol in order to get the best benefits, with the least problems. However, she is paying dearly for taking the drugs and has a multitude of physical problems. It's a trade off and she's willing to take the physical discomfort in order to keep her mental faculties okay. But it just isn't easy.

What I'm objecting to is the casual way so many people take the so called milder drugs because they feel blue, or antsy, or whatever. When there is a serious problem and there is something that can help you get over it, go for it, but first define serious and then decide whether or not it requires chemical help. Life doesn't always have to be easy and if more kids were taught that lesson, and taught how to cope with disappointment or adversity, I think it would be a better world. Don't you think that if you have to figure out a way to deal with a problem it will be less likely to be a problem in the future?

I strongly believe that there is a place for everything and a need for drugs in this world. But I also believe there is a casual attitude toward taking them and that it's dangerous for the future.

I'm going to climb down from my soapbox now and go take some Tylenol to get rid of the headache I created with all this thinking. ;^))

Lucille

On 5/11/07 9:48 AM, "Lucille" wrote:

In a not so odd way, I do think we're agreeing.

You're so right, it isn't easy. There are a variety of drugs used for treatment of Bi-Polar, and the side-effects vary with the drug mechanisms, strength, etc. But, I can certainly understand and appreciate your friend making the decision to put up with the physical problems to keep her faculties well.

You're so right. I have the feeling that the casual use of drugs likely varies a bit with where you are, that particular microcosm of society. I tend to think that around here, it's not such a big problem, but there are a lot of stressed out folks - it's a really busy metro area. OTOH, I think if you consider So Cal, the lifestyle is so different that it maybe lends more to that take something to be buzzed out. Just some thoughts - not intended as glittering generalities and insults.

With the "crazy" SIL, what worries me is that she, and probably lots of others, thinks therapy would be some horrible insulting thing to do, so she'd never admit a problem. And, often, this is the case with people who really do need help, medically, psychologically. But, it's hard for lay people to tell the difference between someone just having a bad day, week, or someone clinically depressed, or with some chemical imbalance that shows as a behavioural disorder. And sometimes too easy for someone who just needs some counselling help in coping to get a drug, and conversely, for the person that does need real chemical treatment, to be told just to "buck up" so to speak. The SIL, a few years back - the neighbors found her passed out in her foyer. Took her to the hospital - she spent 2 weeks in the detox unit (can you say functioning alcoholic with lots of denial). When we finally spoke with her, and encouraged her to go to a therapist - which she did as a condition of her job. After going for a few visits she actually told us that the therapist told her she was perfectly fine, and really that her 7 visits were more than enough. Needless to say, we spoke with the therapist to address some concerns without violating rights. The SIL - also hears what she wants to, and sometimes (most of the time) it has little relation to what is said. Come forward 2 years, she's drinking again, talking with the Extra-Terrestrials, andwon't take her drugs because it'll interfere. If it were my sister - I'd have been on a plane and dragged her kicking and screaming if necessary to the doctor, to the pyschiatrist, to a

True. I think the medical profession is very split. In many ways it is now much more difficult to get prescriptions than it used to be. And the duration for them was changed legislatively last year - to only 1 year. But the casual let's drug you folks - taking and giving - will be there for money, for the easy way out.

LOL - I know that feeling. As someone with tons of drug allergies, I tend to be very cautious about taking any drugs. Don't want to push my tolerances - and my friends are watching me limp around something awful with my injured knee getting worse, and me not wanting to take much more Tylenol. And I definitely am not going for the "good stuff" - unless I know I'm going to be home. And if I'm home, then I should be working on Poseidon, and well, if I were taking drugs, who knows what he'd end up looking like - as is I'm going cross-eyed with the chart..

Hope you're doing something fun. I'm going to head to campus and hope to straighten out some end of term stuff with my not answering e-mail professor, or the dean. Yuck. And have to do that so I'm heading south (right to the awful I-95 mixing bowl south of DC) before the Friday rush starts at 12:30!

Ellice

I went through that for a while. The only medication that did what it was supposed to also had some horrific side effects. If the med hadn't been so effective, I wouldn't have put up with the side effects for two days, but because it was working so well, I put up with them for a year.

That really was the turning point for my health, and I'm glad I did it.

Amen to that. I know people who think life is like TV, all problems get solved in half an hour. When they get in financial trouble, they expect to win $5000 in the church raffle to pay the bills because that's what always happens on TV. Ozzie and Harriet never squabbled about anything, therefore there's something seriously wrong with their marriage when there's a disagreement and it's time to get a divorce.