OT: Statistics for Jim

Do you think that perhaps Lebanon didn't learn that lesson in the early

Elizabeth

You would see such mothers in your country if the choise was to be slaughtered , mirjam

The terrorist movement hit Haifa with 8 rockets , they killed 3 people and wounded more than 100. Hezbulla are terrorists mirjam

It's all relative to your own position (or belief). Like the well-known verb declension: "I am a freedom-fighter, you are a guerilla, he is a terrorist."

It might interest you that just now i listened to the radio , 2 of last night rocket attack in our city will be buried in the Catholic Cemetry , 1 in a Jewish cemetry. HAIFA is a mixed city, our populations live together , that is one of the main reasons we were targeted by suicide bombers as well . as to the Hizbulla`s deffinition as TERRORIST MILITIA ,, go to the UN resolutions. Nothing relative about it . mirjam

Mirjam, Glad to see you still posting. Haifa is definetely a very mixed city. Has any damage been done to the Baha'i temple and gardens? They are so beautiful and peaceful and it would be a shame if they were damaged. My brother in Nahariya is fine, though he no longer has any window glass in his kitchen. It is all in little shards embedded in his cabinets and table along with pieces of the rocket. He was in his safe room with my nephew so both survived intact but a little shaken. Five minutes ealier my nephew was in the kitchen making lunch. My brother was in the safe room taking a nap and my nephew had gone there to wake him up for lunch.

Keep safe.

George

snipped-for-privacy@actcom.co.il (Mirjam Bruck-Cohen) wrote:

George , My heart cries for the people in Nahariya ,[it is my youth city], my heart cries for all the people suffering, this Brutality. I haven`t been out to look at the Bahaai temple & gardens , and as much as my heart wories for all the beautiful trees and plants all over the North, i worry more for people`s lives. Tell your brother i used to live in Hertzel steet in Nahariya. Close to Margo`a street. We are in Haifa are less targeted , Up North is HELL , between the falls, the outings the sirens . May we all survive it soon . Wish yourbrother a `Hazak Ve Ematz ` from me . mirjam

Thank you for the reminder that humans are dying, not some meaningless number.

Terrorists are called Terrorists because they thrive on creating terror. They wrap themselves in a cause, but the main goal is creating terror and demoralizing their enemies.

Stand strong Mirjam! Don't let the bastards win!

Caryn

Thank you Caryn We are on our 30th day of being attacked , many died many wounded , From a country of 5.5 million people about 400.000 are refugees , living in tents ,parks, family and even strangers take in families. Jews , Arabs,Druz ,, all our people get harmed. destruction and death is the Allah this terrorists worship . mirjam

Mirjam, I have a question for you. Just your opinion. What do you think the likelihood is that Israel will try to take back the strip and do you think they will be successful? Just looking for some interesting information.

Angela

Angela , first of all i do not consieder any question about Israel as THEY ,, Israel is us, me + my family + my colleagues neighbours etc,,,We have one lot.

If the happenings in Heathrow yesterday , hasn`t made it clear to you in which world we live now? what do you want me to say.

Since I am not in the government , nore do i head the army , thus i can`t tell you the plans. But since this is one of the most interactive democracies and every tv station has some ex ministeres ex army people etc,,arguing every moove.,, i can vouch for the general idea, Which is , we want to live in peace with Lebanon , so that an international border seperates us. We can`t accept that a Fundamenatalist terror Militia Armed with

I did not mean any offence by the terminology whatsoever. I am in full support of Israel. I was simply asking your opinion (as a person there at the present moment), if you think that at some point would consider taking back the Gaza Strip from the Palestinians (In my humble opinion, I believe it belongs to Israel). From my faith standpoint (yes, as a Christian), Israel has always belonged there and I also feel that it would be a HUGE mistake for the U.S. to not stand by Israel.

I didn't expect a response as if you were in the military or a government member. I just want to educate myself further from someone who sees things first had on a daily basis. That's all.

Angela

"Angbug" ,in rec.crafts.textiles.needleworkwrote: and entertained us with

You need a massive education if you believe that the Palestinians should be eradicated and the Gaza Strip given to Israel!

snipped-for-privacy@actcom.co.il (Mirjam Bruck-Cohen),in rec.crafts.textiles.needleworkwrote: and entertained us with

Would that be after you bombed their power station, or before ??? Or maybe when you bombed some parents to death on the beach in front of their children ?

I was wondering if Angela (and I was going to address her and then thought I'd tag on your post because of its pertinence) was a member/believer in the position that the end days will only come when Israel owns all of that land, so many are trying to hurry that along. This concerns me, because it is a position/philosophy that may have already gotten us into trouble.

Dianne

Sorry , Angela , I am sorry Angela, i was pondering about the use of the word `strip`, but since i live in Haifa , and live in the shelter/safe place to save my life from those Murderous Rockets [ Explosives + Metal pellets] i thought you meant Lebanon ,, I know you had no intention to offend, but i have no intention of being separatred from the the general WE all of us in the same danger.

The Gaza [ we call it AZZA just like it was called in the time of SAMSON]. strip has exchnaged hands ever since King Solomon`s time. and finnaly we have agreed to give it to the Palestinian Authority.

The problen as i see it , is that their leaders somehow aren`t interested at this point in History , to deal with Mundane things like streets , garbage etc,, the late mr Arrafat , loved being photographed in [well ironed ] Uniform never in working clothes.

Mentaly and culturaly we indeed carry in our hearts all the sights and smells of the whole [ not so big]country , From Mount Hermon to the red sea and from the Mediterenean to the Mountains of Basahan & Golan ,, But Historical times changed, other people mooved in and claim it all , Thus the Traditional way is sharing. And sharing need discussions, needs shaking hands, and this is a bit hard to get.

i think our countries have a pact of sorts. But Us will do what is good for herown interest.

I understood that, and wanted to make clear what i felt ,,, I think Azza should settle down , it population should demand from their leaders to stop wasting all soursce on weapons , instead manufacture some useful things ... and provide work and better opportunities for their people. If they go on shooting Kassams [ a kind of rocket] on our villages over the international borders and if they can`t keep their own yard clean , maybe they need some help cleaning it ,,, \for years i hoped talking can be done ,,,, i slowly loose this belief. Every time there is a chance to better something , somebody there blows it up... how long can this go on ? mirjam

Sorry , Angela , I am sorry Angela, i was pondering about the use of the word `strip`, but since i live in Haifa , and live in the shelter/safe place to save my life from those Murderous Rockets [ Explosives + Metal pellets] i thought you meant Lebanon ,, I know you had no intention to offend, but i have no intention of being separatred from the the general WE all of us in the same danger.

The Gaza [ we call it AZZA just like it was called in the time of SAMSON]. strip has exchnaged hands ever since King Solomon`s time. and finnaly we have agreed to give it to the Palestinian Authority.

The problem as i see it , is that their leaders somehow aren`t interested at this point in History , to deal with Mundane things like streets , garbage etc,, the late mr Arrafat , loved being photographed in [well ironed ] Uniform never in working clothes.

Mentaly and culturaly we indeed carry in our hearts all the sights and smells of the whole [ not so big]country , From Mount Hermon to the red sea and from the Mediterenean to the Mountains of Basahan & Golan ,, But Historical times changed, other people mooved in and claim it all , Thus the Traditional way is sharing. And sharing need discussions, needs shaking hands, and this is a bit hard to get.

i think our countries have a pact of sorts. But Us will do what is good for herown interest.

I understood that, and wanted to make clear what i felt ,,, I think Azza should settle down , it population should demand from their leaders to stop wasting all soursce on weapons , instead manufacture some useful things ... and provide work and better opportunities for their people. If they go on shooting Kassams [ a kind of rocket] on our villages over the international borders and if they can`t keep their own yard clean , maybe they need some help cleaning it ,,, \for years i hoped talking can be done ,,,, i slowly loose this belief. Every time there is a chance to better something , somebody there blows it up... how long can this go on ? mirjam

For the time being , the ones kin on eradicating somebody else are the Palestinian Hamas , a side group of Iranian terror . I advice you lucretia to check your education ,,,, on the 25 th of June they tunneled under the International border and kidnapped one of our boys. mirjam

Most of the following incidents in the Gaza Concentration Camp as reported by Israeli sources are about PEOPLE (not statistics).

On June 8, the Israeli army assassinated the recently appointed Palestinian head of the security forces of the Interior Ministry, Jamal Abu Samhadana, and three others.

On June 9, Israeli shells killed seven members of the same family picnicking on Beit Lahiya beach. Some 32 others were wounded, including 13 children.

On June 13, an Israeli plane fired a missile into a busy Gaza City street, killing 11 people, including two children and two medics.

On June 20, the Israeli army killed three Palestinian children and injured

On June 21, the Israelis killed a 35-year old pregnant woman, her brother, and injured 11 others, including 6 children.

After the beach deaths, Hamas, the ruling party in the Palestinian Authority, broke an 18-month ceasefire and joined other militant groups in firing Kassam rockets into Israel. The Financial Times reported on June 23 that the missiles, principally targeted towards the Israel town of Sderot, have caused damage and some casualties but no fatalities in the recent barrages.

On June 24, Israeli commandos entered the Gaza Strip and kidnap two Palestinians.

On June 25, Palestinian militants at an army post at Kerem Shalom near Gaza capture an Israeli soldier, Gilad Shalit and kill two others.

On June 29 Israeli troops arrested dozens of Hamas ministers and parliamentarians as they stepped up their campaign to free the soldier kidnapped by militants in Gaza at the weekend.

Up to June 29, approximately 80 Palestinians have been killed in Gaza due to Israel artillery firing. There have been exactly eight Israelis killed in the last five years from the Kassam missiles. Again, we have a huge disproportion, a huge discrepancy." ('AIPAC v. Norman Finkelstein: A Debate on Israel's Assault on Gaza,' June

Finkelstein also compared the situation with regard to hostages: "let's talk about those 9,000 Palestinians who are effectively hostages being held by Israel. 1,000 of them are administrative detainees. Administrative detainees who are being held without any charges or trial. And the other 8,000 are being held until military courts have convicted them. So if you're going to look simply at the numbers, you have one hostage on the Palestinian side (the captured Israeli soldier), and effectively you have about 9,000 on the Israeli side."

Earlier in the month, the Israeli human rights organization, B'Tselem, published fatality figures for June 2006 in the Occupied Territories and Israel. Forty-two Palestinians, six of them minors, were killed by Israeli armed forces. Twenty-four of the fatalities were bystanders not involved in the conflict.

"The destruction of the power station could quickly cause a humanitarian crisis in Gaza, as electricity is essential to power the water system, sewage treatment, and medical services". ('Gaza: Israeli Offensive Must Limit Harm to Civilians,' June 29, 2006;

The New York Times reported July 3: "for all the pyrotechnics, the [Israeli] operation has been relatively restrained". (Ian Fisher and Steven Erlanger, 'Israel steps up Gaza raids in bid to free soldier,' New York Times, July 3, 2006)

"Relatively Restrained" - NO KIDDING!!!

In July, the Israeli military killed 163 Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, 78 or (48 percent) of whom were not taking part in the hostilities when they were killed, B'Tselem claimed. According to the report, thirty-six of the fatalities were minors, and 20 were women. In the West Bank , 15 Palestinians were killed by Israeli forces in July. The number of Palestinian fatalities in July was the highest in any month since April

On 12 July 2006, a group of youths sought shelter from IDF bombing. Ten of the youths went and hid in a big pit. A missile fired from by an Air Force plane hit the pit, killing six of the youths, five of them minors: Mahmmuad al-'Asar, Ibrahim a-Nabahin and Ibrahim Qatush, age 15, Ahmad Abu hajaj, age

1. Salah Abu Maktomah, age 17 and Hassan 'Abeid, age 18.

On 21 July 2006, a few members of the Hararah family went onto the roof of their house in the a-Sheja'iyeh neighborhood in Gaza City to watch tanks advancing toward the neighborhood. One of the tanks fired a shell at the house. It hit the staircase and killed Muhammad Hararah,, 45, the brother of the owner of the house. Almost immediately afterwards, another shell was fired at the same spot, killing the mother of the family, Sabah, 45, and two of her sons, Muamen, 16, and 'Amer, 23.

On 24 July 2006, two youngsters left their family's farm in the Beit Lahiya area after shells had fallen on the farm's land. They went by horse-drawn wagon and on the way picked up two of their family. A missile, fired by an Air Force plane, made a direct hit on the wagon, killing Khairieh al-'Attar,

Note - The term "Kassam rockets" is sometimes spelt as "Qassam rockets". When we were kids we used to make rockets like these from 4 feet of eave-trough down pipe stuffed with propellant - range about 1/2 to 1 mile or just under 2 km if one could get them to fly straight.

Fred.