OT: Statistics for Jim

Anf just HOW many civilians and children?

Pat P

For some reason, they don't bother to count the innocent (otherwise known as "collateral damage). Frances

For some reason, they don't bother to count the innocent (otherwise known as "collateral damage). Frances

Let me add to the list. The IDF has not damaged the The Mayflower Curling Club The CN Tower The Saddledome all of which are about as relevant as what is mentioned above. I read many years ago that the Israelis understand Lex Talonis, the law of the jungle. Not an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. If I am stronger than you, and you break one of my arms, I break both of your arms, and then break a leg, and put out one of your eyes for good measure. If you want to find out what the IDF did to the armies of Egypt, Syria and Jordan in the 1940's to 70's, read Haim Hertzog's "War of Atonement". The IDF smashed and humiliated these countries militarily, so much so that they signed peace accords, very much on Israeli terms. Israel maintains control of the Golan Heights, and a large chunk of Syrian territory. These three Arab nations do not want to tangle with the IDF; they have had enough punishment. Israel has done horrific damage to many parts of Lebanon, and has set it's economy back enormously. The tourist trade, for example, has been eliminated for what may well be a decade or more. Some of Lebanon's finest beaches are an ecological disaster. What I suspect Israel hopes to achieve is to teach Lebanon what Egypt, Jordan and Syria have already learned. Maybe Israel can get a peace deal with Lebanon on Israeli terms, and have no terrorist threat to Haifa and the whole of northern Israel for many years to come.

As I understand it, the problem is not Lebanon as a whole, but the radicals of Hezbollah, which is a whole 'nother entity.

It's the same old story we learned in the schoolyard -- you need to stand up to the bullies, or they will continue to bully you. But once you whomp their butt, they think twice about being humiliated again.

Hezbollah has sworn to bomb Israel off the map. There is no compromise possible where one side thinks the other has no right to exist. I don't know what their problem is, and I don't care ... grown-ups learn to peacefully co-exist with the neighbors, even if you hate their guts.

You are on the right track, IMHO. Lebanon allowed Hezbollah to operate from it's territory. Hence, Israel wants to ensure this will not happen in the future. Golda Meir, Israel's female Prime Minister, opined that peace will not come to the Middle East "until Arab mothers love their sons more than they hate us". My guess is that she was right.

snipped-for-privacy@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (F.James Cripwell),in rec.crafts.textiles.needleworkwrote: and entertained us with

Interesting that you feel you need to point out Golda Meir was a female Prime Minister. Do you suppose as females (most of us) we don't know which countries have, or have had, females in charge?

Think about all the ones that have and the very few that haven't - tells one quite a bit.

It never fails to amaze me that no matter how careful one is, it is

*always* possible for someone to misinterpret what one writes. Precisely why I included the word "female" I have no idea, but it was meant as a compliment. Oh well!!! May I add how pleased I am that the Supreme Court of Canada has four, out of nine, females, including the Chief Justice. We have lived in a male dominated society for too many years, and it is about time we realized that having equal numbers of male and females running organizations leads to much better operations. The pendulum needs to swing a lot further in favour of females in charge, IMHO.

Neither have I, it was an unnecessary, gratuitous word.

but it was meant as a

Just one proviso, Jim - FEMALES as opposed to feminists!

Pat P

Hizbulla is a Terrorist Guerilla militia , that conffessed to having prepared and stored 12000 rockets on our Northern borders. It might interest you that while our people built little pensions and Zimmers [ bed and breakfast rooms] , they built bunkers.Which might give you an idea to the intentions of each side , My youth town Nahariya and other places close to the border had `monthly` border `disturbances`.kidnapped and killed three soldiers [ observed and helped by Unifil] and for 3 years tortured the families trading with Information about this soldiers. One of the `so called prisoners` , whose release they demand, is a plain muderer , who came with a boat at night entered a house and a family. Hizbulla was supporting and supplying , many of the suice bombers, who killed over 1500 the last years. They are Dug into the earth and shoot rockets and Katjushas at civilians. mirjam from Haifa that was rocketed . and ispent my youth in Nahariya that was yesterday RAINED with more rockets than my friends remember in 23 years. Also Akko where 7 people dies yesterday is one of my favorite places. One of the oldest cities ,,

Hizbulla is a Terrorist Guerilla militia , that conffessed to having prepared and stored 12000 rockets on our Northern borders. It might interest you that while our people built little pensions and Zimmers [ bed and breakfast rooms] , they built bunkers.Which might give you an idea to the intentions of each side , My youth town Nahariya and other places close to the border had `monthly` border `disturbances` The Hizbulla .kidnapped and killed three soldiers [ observed and helped by Unifil] and for 3 years tortured the families trading with Information about this soldiers. One of the `so called prisoners` , whose release they demand, is a plain muderer , who came with a boat at night entered a house and a family. Hizbulla was supporting and supplying , many of the suice bombers, who killed over 1500 the last years. They are Dug into the earth and shoot rockets and Katjushas at civilians. mirjam from Haifa that was rocketed . and ispent my youth in Nahariya that was yesterday RAINED with more rockets than my friends remember in 23 years. Also Akko where 7 people dies yesterday is one of my favorite places. One of the oldest cities ,,

I think it's usually the men who teach hatred. What we need is for more Arab mothers to apply their cooking spoons to tiny hineys when their boys spout hatred, and teach them instead whatever is the Koran's equivalent to "love thy neighbor as thyself".

By the way the Late Golda Meir had a reputation of being `The Man` in her all male cabinet. mirjam , saturday morning with `falls` in Haifa Area before 9 o`clock

Hmmm.. not sure on this one. In some of the Arab circles I have heard of, dear mother might find herself in some serious trouble for laying a hand on a male child. For generations, these women were not permitted to be educated - their sole purpose was to breed male heirs. I do so agree with you in principle, Karen.. just not sure if the women would be able to do that in a fanatical Islamic community (fanatical only because the Koran really doesn't condone killing of anyone).

Julie Central Texas

Way way too many innocents, young and old, male and female, on both sides of the border. Way way too many families destroyed on both sides of the border Way way too many dreams shattered on both sides of the border Way way too many nightmares plague the innocents on both sides of the border. Way way too many lives destroyed though the owners are allowed to exist in the limbo that is a war zone.

It is always so in a war. Those who just want to live their quiet lives are the ones who lose the most it seems. Those who push for the fight seem to be the ones comfortably far away from the exploding missiles.

Nobody really wins, and everyone loses in a war. When will we find a different way to resolve conflicts?

Julie Central Texas

\ That in spite of the fact Israeli mothers allow their children to go off and serve in the army, but that would be teaching love ?

That's difficult. First you hit the kid, then you tell it to be non-violent.

I think the clear answer is that Muslims have to be MADE to be Christians, then all the bible thumpers will be happy!

Mirjam can correct me if I am wrong, but pretty well all Israeli citizens are subject to compulsory military training. I believe certain religious groups are exempt. In effect, the whole Israeli nation is part of the armed forces.

Yes of course they have National Service but I have never seen the mothers rising up and saying "We don't want our sons and daughters going off into the army"