OT: Statistics for Jim

Most of the following incidents in the Gaza Concentration Camp as reported by Israeli sources are about PEOPLE (not statistics).

On June 8, the Israeli army assassinated the recently appointed Palestinian head of the security forces of the Interior Ministry, Jamal Abu Samhadana, and three others.

On June 9, Israeli shells killed seven members of the same family picnicking on Beit Lahiya beach. Some 32 others were wounded, including 13 children.

On June 13, an Israeli plane fired a missile into a busy Gaza City street, killing 11 people, including two children and two medics.

On June 20, the Israeli army killed three Palestinian children and injured

15 others in Gaza with a missile attack.

On June 21, the Israelis killed a 35-year old pregnant woman, her brother, and injured 11 others, including 6 children.

After the beach deaths, Hamas, the ruling party in the Palestinian Authority, broke an 18-month ceasefire and joined other militant groups in firing Kassam rockets into Israel. The Financial Times reported on June 23 that the missiles, principally targeted towards the Israel town of Sderot, have caused damage and some casualties but no fatalities in the recent barrages.

On June 24, Israeli commandos entered the Gaza Strip and kidnap two Palestinians.

On June 25, Palestinian militants at an army post at Kerem Shalom near Gaza capture an Israeli soldier, Gilad Shalit and kill two others.

On June 29 Israeli troops arrested dozens of Hamas ministers and parliamentarians as they stepped up their campaign to free the soldier kidnapped by militants in Gaza at the weekend.

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Israel withdrew from Gaza in September 2005 'til June 29, theestimates run between 7,000 and 9,000 heavy artillery shells have been shotand fired into Gaza. On the Palestinian side, the estimates areapproximately 1,000 Kassam missiles, (crude missiles), have been fired intoIsrael. So there is a ratio of between seven and nine to one. A June 29Guardian leader noted that the home-made Kassam rockets are "not in the sameleague as Israel's hi-tech (though not always accurate) weaponry". 'Stormover Gaza,' The Guardian, June 29, 2006)

Up to June 29, approximately 80 Palestinians have been killed in Gaza due to Israel artillery firing. There have been exactly eight Israelis killed in the last five years from the Kassam missiles. Again, we have a huge disproportion, a huge discrepancy." ('AIPAC v. Norman Finkelstein: A Debate on Israel's Assault on Gaza,' June

29, 2006

Finkelstein also compared the situation with regard to hostages: "let's talk about those 9,000 Palestinians who are effectively hostages being held by Israel. 1,000 of them are administrative detainees. Administrative detainees who are being held without any charges or trial. And the other 8,000 are being held until military courts have convicted them. So if you're going to look simply at the numbers, you have one hostage on the Palestinian side (the captured Israeli soldier), and effectively you have about 9,000 on the Israeli side."

Earlier in the month, the Israeli human rights organization, B'Tselem, published fatality figures for June 2006 in the Occupied Territories and Israel. Forty-two Palestinians, six of them minors, were killed by Israeli armed forces. Twenty-four of the fatalities were bystanders not involved in the conflict.

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) B'Tselem's figures do notinclude the seven members of the Ghaliya family killed on Beit Lahiya beach.Also according to B'Tselem, in May 2006, 36 Palestinians were killed byIsraeli security forces, one Israeli civilian died from injuries hesustained the previous month. Collective Punishment - Frailer Palestinians Are Dying. Having killed many more people in recent weeks, Israel's response to the soldier's capture has been to heap yet more suffering on the Palestinian people. Israel re-invaded Gaza with 5,000 troops on June 27 and then bombed Gaza's only electrical generating station, so depriving half a million people of electricity. Human Rights Watch commented:

"The destruction of the power station could quickly cause a humanitarian crisis in Gaza, as electricity is essential to power the water system, sewage treatment, and medical services". ('Gaza: Israeli Offensive Must Limit Harm to Civilians,' June 29, 2006;

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the same attack, Israel destroyed three bridges, and the main water pipesfor two refugee camps. Will Hutton noted in the Observer: "Sealing offaccess to water and food can only inflict acute discomfort on the peoplethere; already, frailer Palestinians are dying." (Hutton, 'Israel's act ofwar is inexcusable,' The Observer, July 2, 2006) Prior to these attacks, Save the Children's UK Programme Manager Jan Coffey reported that 78% of the population in Gaza were living below the poverty line with 10% of children under five suffering from chronic malnutrition. In June, the World Food Programme reported that 51% of Palestinians - 2 million people - were unable to meet their food needs without aid, and that in Gaza, "the situation is becoming critical". (Justin Podur, 'Summer rains,' ZNet;
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The New York Times reported July 3: "for all the pyrotechnics, the [Israeli] operation has been relatively restrained". (Ian Fisher and Steven Erlanger, 'Israel steps up Gaza raids in bid to free soldier,' New York Times, July 3, 2006)

"Relatively Restrained" - NO KIDDING!!!

In July, the Israeli military killed 163 Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, 78 or (48 percent) of whom were not taking part in the hostilities when they were killed, B'Tselem claimed. According to the report, thirty-six of the fatalities were minors, and 20 were women. In the West Bank , 15 Palestinians were killed by Israeli forces in July. The number of Palestinian fatalities in July was the highest in any month since April

2002. 1,200 Palestinians were injured by the end of July.

On 12 July 2006, a group of youths sought shelter from IDF bombing. Ten of the youths went and hid in a big pit. A missile fired from by an Air Force plane hit the pit, killing six of the youths, five of them minors: Mahmmuad al-'Asar, Ibrahim a-Nabahin and Ibrahim Qatush, age 15, Ahmad Abu hajaj, age

  1. Salah Abu Maktomah, age 17 and Hassan 'Abeid, age 18.

On 21 July 2006, a few members of the Hararah family went onto the roof of their house in the a-Sheja'iyeh neighborhood in Gaza City to watch tanks advancing toward the neighborhood. One of the tanks fired a shell at the house. It hit the staircase and killed Muhammad Hararah,, 45, the brother of the owner of the house. Almost immediately afterwards, another shell was fired at the same spot, killing the mother of the family, Sabah, 45, and two of her sons, Muamen, 16, and 'Amer, 23.

On 24 July 2006, two youngsters left their family's farm in the Beit Lahiya area after shells had fallen on the farm's land. They went by horse-drawn wagon and on the way picked up two of their family. A missile, fired by an Air Force plane, made a direct hit on the wagon, killing Khairieh al-'Attar,

58 and her grandchild Nadi al-'Attar , 11. Another member of the family, Shadi, 14 was injured. Testimony of Shadi al-'Attar. IDF also fired a shell that fell next to the a-Nada Towers , a housing project located in the northern Gaza Strip. The shelling killed three civilians, one of them a minor: Saleh Naser, 14, Sadeq Naser, 33, and S'adi Na'im, 29.

Note - The term "Kassam rockets" is sometimes spelt as "Qassam rockets". When we were kids we used to make rockets like these from 4 feet of eave-trough down pipe stuffed with propellant - range about 1/2 to 1 mile or just under 2 km if one could get them to fly straight.

Fred.

Reply to
Fred
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Can this OT discussion be carried out on another newsgroup or via email? It has nothing to do with needlework and clogs up my computer with un-necessary postings.

Reply to
ricardianno

It`s marked OT., Bruce, precisely because it HAS nothing to do with needlework . Thus you can

a) Not read them b) Delete them c) Set your newsreader to prevent them even from reaching you.

There are a lot of us most concerned about the situation, and one of our stitching members, unfortunately, is in the thick of it.

Pat P

Reply to
Pat P

" snipped-for-privacy@spambtinternet.com" ,in rec.crafts.textiles.needleworkwrote: and entertained us with

What sort of embroidery was it that you said you do ?

Reply to
lucretia borgia

"Fred" ,in rec.crafts.textiles.needleworkwrote: and entertained us with

Thank you Fred for your usual well-backed up post.

Reply to
lucretia borgia

My wife does cross-stitch and blackwork with an occasional bit of embroidery. She freely admits to being computer illiterate so I am charged with acquiring information etc for her when necessary via this very helpful newsgroup. My own hobbies include classical pipe organ music (playing it and listening to it), hand-built 4mm finescale model railway trackwork and computer software (I was a civil servant specialising in bespoke computer software before I retired three years ago)

Reply to
ricardianno

Well if you were familiar with stitching you would know that when stitchers gather together, there is talk. I go to a stitchin every Tuesday, somebody needs assistance, everyone is right there, everyone busy on their stitching, the chatting starts and it covers every subject imaginable.

It was always thus, women (mostly) gathered and talked while their fingers worked embellishing household linens, making clothing or adding to it and talking.

So this is not the wrong place for OT talk, it was clearly marked OT, just set your reader to skip OT subjects and you needn't be bothered with it. However, don't tell this stitching circle which is the more modern adaptation of what used to be, what it is we are going to do!

Reply to
lucretia borgia

"Well-backed up post" indeed!! I think not. I wont comment on the rest of the garbage Fred wrote, but the best evidence I saw on the incident I left in, was the damage was caused by a Palestinian explosive device left on the beach, targeting Israeli commands who come ashore. And it was not in the plural. There was only one explosion.

Reply to
F.James Cripwell

Well said, Pat, and every one else who commented in the same vein!! If I had a Canadian dollar for every post like the one Bruce wrote, that I have read on rctn, I could go to my LNS and have enough S.E.X. to last me a year. I would put Bruce's alternatives another way.

a) Leave rctn altogether b) Learn to killfile c) Learn to ignore them. I recommend c).

Reply to
F.James Cripwell

Show us the articles that you feel show Fred is in error - rather than what you think.

Reply to
lucretia borgia

That's a paradox!

You got the original post going with your request for statistics, now you claim they should be ignored.

Reply to
lucretia borgia

Aha Yes i forgot FRED Pakistan , Afghanistan, Kosovo are al very close to your country , your friends and family are daily threatend by their rockets , suicide bombers etc,,,, The only difference is your country can deffend itself far away from where it`s own citizens live. The Other difference is that you keep your journalists further away from the real happenings. Here it is Next door to all of us ,,, this is a small country if someone gets shot on one side the echo resonants all over the tiny country. mirjam

Reply to
Mirjam Bruck-Cohen

The power station was blown up AFTER the kidnapping and killing of our boys, The tragedy on the beach, was declared bt the Palestinian autorities themselves as being caused by some explosive materials , in use of Palestinian militias. The girl told all that her father picked up something. mirjam

Reply to
Mirjam Bruck-Cohen

And in all this time ,, rockets flew over part of our southern village , killing children and grown ups as well. In Shederot hundreds of Kassams Rockets are falling.... But this of course isn`t interesting to you .

mirjam

Reply to
Mirjam Bruck-Cohen

Fred gave an ******EXTREMELY****** biased account of what has happened in the Middle East. It is not that Fred is in error on all of them, but merely he has been so selective that the net result is that his comments are garbage.

Reply to
F.James Cripwell

Touche(with an acutre accent on the e). However, I dont ignore the posts, but I am sure there are lots of rctners who are not the slightest bit interested in what I asked for, and, hopefully, they will ignore the thread.

Reply to
F.James Cripwell

Thank you Pat , for your kind remark . As to Bruce, May i invite you to see beautiful Haifa , Spend a day in my youth town Nahariya,,, [ hard sole shoes are advised] . I have been discussing many things with people here over the years. What is your trouble, you are not targeted by any rocket , nore are you flamed verbally by anybody .... so ????? mirjam

Reply to
Mirjam Bruck-Cohen

I disagree. The quoted articles are not lies so therefore whether you like them or not, you are not able to dismiss them as 'garbage'. If they are such 'garbage' point us to facts that disprove his articles that he quoted, that make you decide your opinion is not garbage.

Reply to
lucretia borgia

I do wish people would read what is written. I never said that what Fred wrote was wrong, or lies or whatever. I said it was biased. That is it presents only one side of the story in a ***VERY*** exaggerated way. This sort of rabble rousing I feel is garbage. If I attempted to answer each and every biased item Fred wrote, it would take up far too much bandwidth, and be a pretty useless exercise anyway.

Reply to
F.James Cripwell

You make it clear the articles were truthful so it is more a case that it is a truth that is not palatable to you. I believe you only want to hear the stats that please you, not the ones that conflict with your view.

Reply to
lucretia borgia

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