Stitches for rugs?

Lynda,

My eyes aren't too great, and I have been looking at some of the large count canvases in catalogs. Does it look good? Is it hard to do, or does it look sort of crappy? Some of the pillows look easy to stitch, and great to do as an "on the road" project. Of course I am lusting after the Morris things,( thanks Sheena) but I have never done needlepoint!!

Gillian

The piece that I did came out of the Herschner's catalogue. It's a cat's face and I intend to make it into a pillow. (I've got the backing, but sewing the darned thing up is always the hardest part for me.) Of course it _does not_ look 'crappy'...I wouldn't have done it otherwise! :-)

This was described in the catalogue as a needlepoint piece but the instructions call for cross stitch to keep the canvas from distorting and to give better coverage. Coming from doinga piece on 18 count black aida, I felt like Barry Bonds at a T-ball tournament. Didn't need to get out the magnifier or the daylight lamp but could just set on the sofa in front of the tv and stitch away, and it only took a week to complete.

I started out doing needlepoint (er, canvas embroidery...smiles to Dianne) many years ago but got away from it as canvasses got more expensive and sources of Persian and tapestry yarn became scarce in my area. Cross stitch, with its ready availability of threads, fabric, and charts ended up being a substitute. To me, there isn't much difference in technique, except that cross stitch is twice the stitching. (Remember that the basic needlepoint stitch is the half-cross.)

I, too, am a fan of William Morris, though came to his needlework design in a roundabout way. I was aware of his literary career through DH's graduate work in English lit many years before I realized the connection between the writer and the designer. DH though it was funny as all get out when I started waxing eloquent about the art! (Of course, I didn't know Sylvia Sidney had a day job as an actress, either.) I have been wondering if his designs could be adapted a la Kaffe Fasset to a straight stitch on a 7-mesh canvas. To me, that would be the best of all worlds!

Lynda

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Sometimes I think war is God's way of teaching us geography." ..................Paul Rodriguez..................................... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Smile right back at ya. I wish I was more familiar with canvas embroidery to be able to offer some suggestions. I did get out Dillmont's encyclopedia to see if there was any advice on which stitch got good wear, etc., but I got lost in a sea of so many interesting stitches.

Tramming looks like a good alternative to cross stitch if the thread is thick, according to Dillmont. Just throwing that out there, because I have no experience to answer any pleas about this embroidery.

Dianne

Well, maybe I will order one, and see how I get on. It will be a change from using aida or an evenweave anyway! Thank you for the input Gillian

"Tramming looks like a good alternative..."

Yes, tramming was the old-fashioned way of indicating design and color before painted canvasses or charts. I had thought that it was a long-forgotten technique until I saw a couple of pieces offered in Herschner's on the same page as those with pre-worked designs, so guess people still do them. Applying my own to a design just never occurred to me...but it would seem that on something the size of a rug, tramming would take a huge amount of extra yarn.

Dianne, I'm surprised that you profess unfamiliarity...needlepoint stitches are for the most part identical to surface embroidery stitches and worked the same way. The few differences of which I'm aware relate to the type of canvas being used. For example, the half-cross morphs into tent (which looks the same on the front but works the long way round on the back) when using a mono canvas where the warp and weft are not locked in place. Continental or basketweave is merely tent done on a diagonal.

I've got a bunch of needlework books but not Dillmont's encyclopedia. Is it still obtainable? I adore good references with good ideas.

Lynda

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Sometimes I think war is God's way of teaching us geography." ..................Paul Rodriguez..................................... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Well, that really depends upon what you mean. You really have to work them on a countable ground. That isn't surface embroidery.

Of course. And tent stitch used to mean splitting penelope canvas so that the work was finer. Still, none of this is like surface embroidery.

You bet it's still available. DMC took on the rights a few years ago. Not sure if they still have them. I have two copies, one prior to DMC and the DMC issue. I believe you can pick it up at Herschnerr's. This book has been reprinted so many times. I like it for all the techniques in so many genre's. Both of mine are well worn.

But if you're truly into canvas embroidery, an even more delightful book is Carolyn Ambuter's "The Open Canvas". That will take you down paths you might have thought you'd never go. :-)

I'm waiting until my eyes finally give up on me, then I'll switch to canvas. One always has to have something else to move onto. I've joked to myself that, if this vision keeps fading at its current rate, I may jump right into plastic canvas!

Dianne

Tramming is for the birds in my book. Basketweave or diagonal tent has long replaced it. Tramming was done when wools were much thinner, rather like the Appletons crewel wools, to give greater stability and build in some endurance on pieces like diningroom chair seats.

Basketweave every time, very durable, and/or cross stitch, either will do. But tramming ? Hate it.

You will have to explain that technique to me!

I have a copy of that but I can't say I rave over it. A lot of it is nothing particularly admirable and if I hadn't been able to pick it up for CAN$3 - I would possess it.

I can't believe you have said this Dianne. Canvas work can be beautiful, it does not consist only of needlepoint stitches but of all kinds of surface stitchery and using all kinds of threads and wools. A lot of the modern canvas work should definitely not be left until the eye sight is going. Are you suggesting it is easy, pappy work ? If so, take a look at some pieces. I believe there are many at the ANG site.

And Sheena responded:

It's in Dillmont, I think.

Interesting. I've learned some unusual techniques through this book. Though I don't practise it on canvas. :-)

I know what modern canvas embroidery is all about. But it's a darn sight easier to see than 60 or 100 count! I can't believe how my eyes are changing. I just did a 32-ct Hardanger emb. pattern and I struggled a bit to see. Six months ago that would have been no problem. I embroider without glasses, and I have a new magnifying lamp (thanks to my Christmas angel) which I can use. However, I still prefer nothing but sun if I can get away with it, and the finer counts are getting harder.

I look forward to doing some beaded work on canvas. I remember the beaded bags my grandmother did, one knitted, another on canvas. They were both beautiful.

No, I don't think needlepoint is just half crosses. I understand full well what it's all about, and I may not be able to see well enough to do all of it. But I may very well get to the point that I can't do work any finer than canvas work.

For the moment, I'm content to stay where I'm at. But should the time come that I can't see good enough, I won't sit here idle. I'll find something creative to do.

This is not to demean canvas embroiderers. But if my vision gets that bad, all I may be able to do is large half crosses on canvas. That's why I giggled about plastic canvas. That's better than being idle.

Dianne

I don't possess Dillmont, preferring Mary Thomas. Penelope was often used so that faces could be accomplished in petite point within the body of needlepoint, but I have never heard of splitting stitches.

Well maybe you are not aware of the fact that you made it sound as if needlepoint/canvas work was something one did when nearly blind, thus implying that it is very easy, non brain testing stuff. Some members of our Guild have just finished some canvas work pieces. They are triumphs in patience and precision and since they are all in completely different colours, very different and consequently quite original to each.

You're saying it again Dianne!

It's petit point: Penelope has two threads. You divide them for "over one" stitching.

No, that's the way *you* understood my words.

No I'm not. But yes, there may come a time when all I can do is work tent stitch on large canvas. I'll be content to do that rather than sit idle. There's no disgrace in that. This doesn't demean canvas embroidery. I'm just stating what might happen in my case.

I have a mother who was very talented in needlework - had she taken the time to progress. She could sew extremely well, knit, and taught me simple embroidery. But she cut herself off from life and does nothing but sit around all day. Her mind is becoming mush. I'm not going there. I'll find something creative to do despite any disability I might have. That's the point I'm making.

Boy, you really read into stuff what you want to. Dianne

Hi Lynda,

Straight stitches work really well on Zweigart's 8 or 9 count penelope canvas. Downside is that it's narrow and a rug may have a seam or two. Then you use 4 or 5 strands of Persian type, or 2 strands of tapestry weight.

I have worked a sample runner on the 7.5 count cream rug canvas in cross stitch and it turned out surprisingly well. I plan to use this for more rugs in the future and it comes 48" wide (330 stitches).

Irene