Guild Practice

My old guild did that at *quilt shows* (and/or charged a flat booth fee), but programs for regular meetings or classes?? Nope. If we did, we'd not have any!!!

In fact, as a rule, even with my current guild, we PAY presenters and if a vendor puts on a presentation/teaches a class, well that would count, too. Assuming of course, that we're talking about someone coming and teaching a class or presenting a new technique or how to use a product.

Is your guild suffering from low membership? I've heard guilds that have low membership do things like this sometimes to generate some revenue without charging the members more dues ...

Quilty hugs!! Connie :-)

>

Yeah, Connie, we're suffering from what all organizations suffer from - stagnation and death.

Cindy

I have heard of this. It was discussed a few years back over on either the quilt designers or quilt teachers list. It was not a popular thing to put it mildly.

Many of them said they won't sell at guilds who do this. Other said they do but then require the guild to provide helper who unload, set up, help sell and help put away. The guild has to earn that 10%.

I agree, it's not the most effective way to make friends and book speakers. If you are dealing with speakers who have already been booked then I'd tell the board that you cannot change their contracts at this late date :-) I'd also ask to bring it up at the meeting and tell the membership - I've spoken to x number of speakers and this many of them will not speak for us if we have that clause. Lay it out that if they want to keep the quality of the programs high they need to be less greedy.

If they still want to keep it then say you need clarification - the sales tax issue is important. How a guild earns money with regards to their non-profit status also is an issue and one that needs to be considered.

marcella

All really, really good points, Marcella. Thank you.

Next year's board is going to be very different than the boards of the past few years. We have a few people (and they're good people) who want to know why we do some things the way we do.

For instance, our bylaws state that workshops have to pay for themselves. If we don't get enough people to sign up for them, they are cancelled. The guild does not subsidize the cost. Now, the guild pays all the expenses for the workshop presenter because she is also the evening speaker.

We charge $30 for workshops and that includes a good lunch. But if the presenter charges $300 for the workshop and we don't get 10 people to pay the $30 then the workshop is cancelled.

Some people don't think this is fair. They think the guild should make up the difference. Others think the guild shouldn't have to pay for something not everyone can take advantage of. I can see both sides, I'm torn about this.

One of our "missions" is education. Would not this cost fall under education?

On the other hand, where do you draw the line? What if only 2 people sign up for the workshop?

We are Not For Profit. We carry a balance of around $6,000 in our treasury. There are questions as to why we carry this much money.

Next year is going to be fun. :-(

Cindy

............cut.......

It can go either way. Our guild used to say sign ups had to cover the workshop. Now, we do try to encourage enough people to attend but if that doesn't happen the guild picks up the balance. To counter that we did raise the workshop cost to $40. Around here that's still quite a bargain for an all day class with a name teacher. The change happened because so many national speakers require a workshop when they come to lecture.

Not for profit doesn't mean spend it all every year. A very common misconception. You actually should have enough in your treasury to cover 6 months or more of expenses. Important if something happens.

Your board does need to be careful about re-vamping the bylaws too often though. Most states require all bylaws changes to be filed each and every time as part of maintaining non-profit status and is it a red flag if there are changes every year or more often.

marcella

But "not for profit" and "non-profit" are not the same thing -- right?

I believe you are also required by law to have enough reserves to pay off any obligations. For example, if you have outstanding contracts with speakers or with your meeting place, you need the reserves to fulfill those contracts. That is the explanation I have received for our guild's reserves. However, that may vary from state to state.

Julia in MN

Yep, and it's a shame ... when wonderful orgs get a reputation for being a bit too much on the "greedy" side, it hurts us ALL. :-/

But what else is a guild supposed to do? It takes money to get new members (putting on quilt shows, supporting classes at local senior centers, civic groups, etc) ... and they have to get the operating cash somewhere. And most guilds, I think, don't want to penalize their existing members. :-/

I really feel for you ... I'd hate to be in the position that you're in. But at the same time, I think you'd be tactful enough to handle it better than others. I get the feelin' that even an unhappy vendor is less likely to be furious with you than anyone else. You're seeing the situation from *their* perspective. You think it's ridiculous ... others in your guild might take the position that the guild is ... well ... entitled.

((((Cindy))))

Quilty hugs!! Connie

I'm fair sure that our guild kind of takes the view that it all works out in the end. If only 3 people sign up for "such-and-such" workshop, well, chances are, the next workshop will be standing room only.

My old guild took that view, too. And making sure that the majority was interested in taking a particular workshop and would actually pay and attend was a prime motivator. They took a heavy loss one year and instead of penalizing the members, they made sure to check with the majority and see what everyone wanted.

Yep, but still ... you can't get blood from a stone. If your guild is in financial jeopardy and can't afford to pay FOR the education, the mission statement is moot. :-/

$6,000 may SEEM like a lot of money and I've certainly heard of guilds that carry less (and many more that carry MORE), but there's a lot of costs involved.

My old guild paid rent to the church we met in (and made an Opportunity Quilt for them for auction each year), paid for books, videos, speakers, presenters (ALL expenses in both cases), putting on the quilt show, fabric/thread/etc for community projects ('course, some was also donated) ... list goes on.

By LAW they have to provide a budget and expense report (Annual Report in the commercial sector) to it's members. Ask for a copy and SEE for yourself whether $6K is too much and if they can afford to do without the 10% ...

You may just decide that YOU can do a better job!! :-)

YOU could MAKE it fun!! :-)

We've asked and asked and asked what the members want. Apparently they don't want anything. Until a decision is made and then they want to be unhappy.

We get an expense report every month and I actually generated the budget. I was Treasurer for the first 4 months of the year until the Program Co-chair had to back out. I took her job and someone else took Treasurer because no one wanted to do Program.

See above. Finances takes a lot out of me. I'm not good at it and I don't enjoy handling money.

Oh, I'll have fun, I always do. I've been on the board for 3 1/2 years. It has mostly been made up of the same crowd. All the worker bees. There's a

4 year limit and a lot of them have reached it. So, there will be a lot of new faces on the board. Different crowd. Guess I should have thought of that when I was recruiting people to be officers next year.

I know it sounds like I think it's a one woman show, but that's not even close to the truth. I just have a hard time saying no. It comes from being a people-pleaser.

Cindy

(snip)

It surely does. In NY the only rule about not-for-profits bank balances is you have to have a certain percentage of outgo as opposed to income. In fact they would rather see you in the red than see you maintain a noticable bank balance. To them it means you are fullfilling your function. I am aware that some states encourage nfp orgs to keep sufficient funding in hand to maintain operating costs for a set time though.

Really when the new board convenes they should have a chat with the accountant, and maybe with the lawyer. Being clear on the rules is a good thing. In fact I heartily encourage anybody on the board of any 501C3 to have an incredibly boring twice yearly meeting just to refresh on the rules and any changes that have occured in them. It is just amazing how the mouthiest member of the board can forget all the rules when they get a "brilliant idea".

NightMist

On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 15:58:59 -0500, teleflora wrote (in article ):

I've never heard of such a think! I'm pretty sure our guild doesn't do anything like that.

Maureen

On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 18:11:00 -0500, teleflora wrote (in article ):

Our guild also charges for workshops. Maybe occassionally (once or twice a year) guild will pick up all the charges. But before cancelling, we generally will try to open it up to non-members/members of near-by guilds.

We have some whining, but go on doing it. Because not everyone is interested in/can take advantage of the workshops.

The guild in NYC does that...takes a cut of the vendors' sales. But they invite a vendor for every meeting in addition to the speaker.

I don't really have a problem with that. And neither should the vendors or speakers.

The speaking fee & travel expenses are a separate deal. They are getting compensated at their asking rate so that's not a problem.

As for the items they sell at the meeting, that is pretty much the ONLY time THEY will pocket 100% of the selling price.

For example, if they have a C&T book out and I want to buy it, I can go to my LQS and spend $25.95, or I can go to Amazon and get 30% off that. It doesn't matter to the speaker/ author because she's getting a set cut/book from the publisher *regardless* of the selling venue.

Same with fabric and notions.....Those are mostly sold to quilt shops thru wholesalers like Checkers and United Notions. The mark-up by the quilt shops is almost 100%. So the author/creator/speaker was only getting a much smaller amount to begin with.

So the $20 ruler you bought at the quilt shop cost the quilt shop $10. And the wholesaler has to make money. And the manufacturer has to have some profit. So the ruler probably cost $1 (or less) to make. And even if there is 100% mark-up at every stage (not totally sure about this), the author/creator was NEVER getting anywhere near the amount it sells for in the quilt shop.

So I don't think a 10% take of the speaker's sales at a guild meeting is out-of-line - you are providing her the opportunity to take a bigger cut on those sales.

I'm sure they ain't too happy about it, but I think as more quilt guilds are strapped for money (due to rent, insurance, etc. increases), they might turn to this model. (The community center, church, school gym - whatever the meeting venue - is also looking for a bit more cash. The church needs a new roof - there goes the $100/day rent for the local quilt guild. Now it's $500/day. That's happening all over. Just like the venue, the guild has to come up with the cash from somewhere.)

And if it's just vendors (not a speaker), I would think 10% is fair - whenever they get a booth a show, I would think their expenses are much higher.

End of ramble.

-Michele

I also think that events ought to pay for themselves, that the burden should fall on the participants who benefited. You might make the workshop fees more flexible though. Let your members know the total cost and point out that you need X number of participants, or those who signed up would be asked if they wanted to split the excess cost between them. Give them the option of paying a bit more rather than simply canceling a good workshop. Of course, it would work in the other direction too: if you had more than X on the list, they would be charged less. Roberta in D

"teleflora" schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:sgFFi.95453$ snipped-for-privacy@newsfe21.lga...

Newsbeitragnews:sgFFi.95453$ snipped-for-privacy@newsfe21.lga...

you know...i've been quilting for over 30 years, but i've only been in one guild, many-o-moons ago. i was never an officer, and i dont remember them having an accountant or a lawyer. maybe i was too busy working on quilts to be interested in the details. but i do remember that the treasurer was always trying to raise extra money for our group. she was a dilligent and consciencous (sp?) person. i wish i could find a new guild. i miss the comorraderie (it's way too early to spell correctly today! i had septic problems last nite and had the guy there at 9:00pm....ugh! what a nightmare!) amy

Newsbeitragnews:sgFFi.95453$ snipped-for-privacy@newsfe21.lga...

Amy, I finally joined a guild after about 6 years going without (too lazy and too busy to make it to meetings) and I'm SO happy I did. I belonged to another one prior, but of course, when we moved over 1200 miles, it was too hard to get to their meetings! ;-)

But I heartily encourage you to join one ... is it that you don't know where a local one is? Or just on the fence about joining period?

Enh, don't worry about your spelling! At least you didn't lock your keys inside a RUNNING car this morning! Yes, yes, I did that this morning. How dumb do you have to be to do THAT?? I will NEVER live this down.

*sigh* Someone has to comic relief in our house ... at least I'm doin' a good job of it! :-)

Actually, chances are, they have a contract (dealing more with a flat fee and a small, small percentage of the profits made from the published article) rather than depending solely on the profits from selling the book.

If Sally Stitcher gets her book pubbed by C&T, chances are they paid her upfront and as a "bonus" she gets a percentage from sales - usually with strings attached - book signings, publicity dates, luncheons, seminars, etc.

At least, that's how it typically works with most pub houses - not sure about non-mainstream pub houses like C&T.

Stephen King got (IIRC) $2mil for one of his last books PLUS a percentage (albeit small) of the sales. The figure might not be right, but I'm fair sure the contract specs are.

Now I've done pubbed mags that are carried by distributors and then the distributors sell the mags to the shops ... typcially, the amount retained by the actual owner of the mag stays the same (which, though not huge, is still pretty good - considering that the printing costs and operating costs are the only costs they really have - shipping's taken over by the distributor)... the quilt shop sees very, very little of it. Mags are usually considered to be a boon for the shop owner in that they encourage collateral sales.

If the average quilt shop made $1 on the average mag sale, I'd be surprised. I'd figure it's much lower. Or maybe the editors I've worked with managed to negotiate better than the average person.