OT terribly OT - punctuation

Lots of rules have changed, but this one hasn't. I think every signpainter in town should be required to take a class on basic punctuation. That possessive-plural- apostrophe-contraction thing gets them every time; Those signs make me cringe. But change *is* hard to keep up with; after all, nouns are turning into verbs right and left and it irritates me which shows how old I am. "Text" is one. I blame tje

1970-s when "party" was allowed to morph into a verb. They were setting a dangerous precedent, But I have been dragged into the practice of "texting" by my kids, who get real annoyed with me for spelling all the words out correctly without abbreviation.

Sherry

i think i'd of written it as The Esthers' if anything. but that one always has and still does confuddle me immensely. i also think those banana's must come with 69 cents but how much they cost is still a mystery. hmm, i wonder how many bananas one must buy to get that 69 cents. yet something else to ponder.

j.

"Polly Esther" wrote ... Please do forgive me for my Cranky Pants Polly howling. I don't know if the rules have changed or if I just never understood them in the first place. Today we received an announcement from a university that a great-grandchild was receiving her degree. Wonderful. It was addressed to " The Esther's " . The Esther's what? The Esther's cat? The Esther's recipe for angel food cake? You frequent readers know that I am a great-grandmother and am struggling with change. I still want to get out my red pen and correct the grocer when his sign reads " Banana's 69¢". Banana's what? I have adjusted, reluctantly, that MISS is now MS and that Ms means 'who knows and it's none of your business'. Guide me gently here. Have the rules changed or should her parents demand their money back for her education? Polly

i think i'd of written it as The Esthers' if anything. but that one always has and still does confuddle me immensely. i also think those banana's must come with 69 cents but how much they cost is still a mystery. hmm, i wonder how many bananas one must buy to get that 69 cents. yet something else to ponder.

j.

"Polly Esther" wrote ... Please do forgive me for my Cranky Pants Polly howling. I don't know if the rules have changed or if I just never understood them in the first place. Today we received an announcement from a university that a great-grandchild was receiving her degree. Wonderful. It was addressed to " The Esther's " . The Esther's what? The Esther's cat? The Esther's recipe for angel food cake? You frequent readers know that I am a great-grandmother and am struggling with change. I still want to get out my red pen and correct the grocer when his sign reads " Banana's 69¢". Banana's what? I have adjusted, reluctantly, that MISS is now MS and that Ms means 'who knows and it's none of your business'. Guide me gently here. Have the rules changed or should her parents demand their money back for her education? Polly

The rule hasn't changed. The form 's indicates possession. What has changed is a nasty invention called Spell Check and even worse Grammar Check which allow the lazy person to feel s/he has fixed all the tiddly problems that arise from not learning grammar, punctuation and spelling. I have absolutely no problem with being a total Cranky Pants. For some odd reason, punctuation, grammar and spelling are not drilled in school anymore. Elementary school is the place for this. I believe I learned the entire grammar of the English language in Mrs. Margie Presswood's 7th grade English class in Comanche, Texas. She tried to make it fun, but it was dry, dry, dry. I hated that class and was never so happy to see a school year end. But I learned it and so did 90 percent of my classmates. We knew grammar and punctuation. And then I was a student of Mrs. Mary Brown in Waco, Texas as a senior in her Senior Year Humanities Class. OMG -- She was a slave driver and had no humor at all about poor grammar, etc. By the end of her class, I was not just ready for freshman year of University. I was ready for anything that could be thrown at me in the way of writing assignments.

All that is to say that I am cranky about the lack of precision in the language now. Schools just don't drill or concentrate on 'dull' classes. As much instruction as possible is taught via computer 'game' so that students don't lose interest. My sister, who teaches 2nd grade, assures me that children now can not concentrate on anything for longer than 15-20 minutes.

I believe you are completely justified to correct that announcement envelope, tuck it into a correctly addressed one, and mail it back to the child who graduated college without a basic grade school education.

Sunny on her soapbox

It definitely has NOT changed Polly, although one could be forgiven for thinking so with the number of times it's used incorrectly.

I am a high school English teacher and I have to say that I DO spend a lot of time reviewing punctuation, spelling and general grammar in all my classes (right up to the senior year). I know they have been taught it, but they just don't seem to retain it. I figure that I shouldn't have to actually teach (rather than just review) it with 13 year olds, but apparently I do. One problem is that so many do not read the printed word much anymore. Lots of reading on the computer, but so much of that is by people who either don't know or refuse to use 'Standard English' anyway because they think it doesn't matter. Hmm, that's a whole other discussion...

I'll join you in being a cranky pants. Now I'm off to mark some student work. Let's see how many errant apostrophes I have to circle this time. :-)

can you explain to me... why some folks call the letter H, Haitch? why some folks say ec cetera when the abbreviation is etc so it must be et cetera. there are others but those two come to mind readily (sp?). i've never used a title and it really annoys me when some idiot computer says i must pick a title. grrrrrr. just call me jeanne, thanks.

"Leigh Harris" wrote ... It definitely has NOT changed Polly, although one could be forgiven for thinking so with the number of times it's used incorrectly.

I am a high school English teacher and I have to say that I DO spend a lot of time reviewing punctuation, spelling and general grammar in all my classes (right up to the senior year). I know they have been taught it, but they just don't seem to retain it. I figure that I shouldn't have to actually teach (rather than just review) it with 13 year olds, but apparently I do. One problem is that so many do not read the printed word much anymore. Lots of reading on the computer, but so much of that is by people who either don't know or refuse to use 'Standard English' anyway because they think it doesn't matter. Hmm, that's a whole other discussion...

I'll join you in being a cranky pants. Now I'm off to mark some student work. Let's see how many errant apostrophes I have to circle this time. :-)

I have a fair idea of what has started this apostrophe plague.

First of all, there were those who spoke fiercely that apostrophes were not being used! So, they started to be used randomly, as those who had complained of their low usage were greater in number than those who knew how to use them. Secondly, there are teachers who have no clue as to how to use apostrophes - what their various functions are and when each is appropriate. I was a teacher and know this to be true. More recently, it is Spellcheck: quite often when you use a plural in a message, it will get underlined as being incorrect. When you check on the suggested change list, top of the list is the possessive case, with the apostrophe before the 's'. Now that that has taken place, along with the other two, I don't think there is any way we are going to be able to correct the next couple of generations. Sigh. . In message , Polly Esther writes

1. Ms = manuscript. I once commented on it to a close relative and was told 'I'm Ms'. Oh dear! I now address envelopes to Misses with just their first and surname. I also think that Miss is a much prettier word than 'Mus' which somehow sounds dusty!

1. My LQS's blog and catalogue say e.g. 'If you have kid?s at home'. Do I tell them that 90% of their customers are cringing?

2. I told the local cafe that their 'A' board outside their shop said Potatoe Soup, because everyone who passed commented, but it was never changed. Our butcher has Tomatoe Sausages. My toes are on the end of my foot, and wiggle!

Definitely your great-grandchild's parents should have a refund.

Sally at the Seaside ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~uk

Polly Esther wrote:

Here here about 'haich'. I've even heard tv adverts for HMV record shops use it. Ugggg. Its on the TV News too - though I've never heard HSBC bank being mispronounced. I woinder why.

Also I have noticed that words like 'little' and 'hospital' have started to have the 't' overstressed, so they become rather twee. Very noticable on TV when I presume the person is trying to be very conscious of the sound they are making, but it just comes out sounding contrived.

I also bemoan the loss of the word 'gay' to denote merry and bright. There is no other suitable word. When someone described fabric or a person as 'gay' you knew exactly what they mean. Now it just causes a sort of full-stop pause. Sad, it was so descriptive.

Sally at the Seaside ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~uk

J* wrote:

The rules have not changed. The general "dumbing down" of the society is in vogue. Pop Culture glorifies the crude and pointless. "Rap" lyrics are a prime example. Sigh! John

I will NOT text on a phone. I will not. However, I was quite a champion at taking dictation; more than 400 words per minute. Now and then, just showing off, I send an email with no vowels. The grandchildren are quite startled. I do try to be unpredictable. Polly

"Sherry" < Lots of rules have changed, but this one hasn't. I think every signpainter in town should be required to take a class on basic punctuation. That possessive-plural- apostrophe-contraction thing gets them every time; Those signs make me cringe. But change *is* hard to keep up with; after all, nouns are turning into verbs right and left and it irritates me which shows how old I am. "Text" is one. I blame tje

1970-s when "party" was allowed to morph into a verb. They were setting a dangerous precedent, But I have been dragged into the practice of "texting" by my kids, who get real annoyed with me for spelling all the words out correctly without abbreviation.

Sherry

I'm with you, Jeanne. It is indeed something to ponder. Polly

I am so happy that many of you protest being dumbed down; rather surprised that our librarians haven't chimed in. Wonder where they are? Polly

"John"

On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 22:28:08 -0500, Polly Esther wrote (in article ):

I don't believe the rules have changed on that apostrophe. Yeah, I'd my money back.

But then I'm constantly appalled by the high school graduate and college interns that work for us in the summer. Have no sense of how to spell, how to punctuate, how to dress for work, how to write a proper business letter...

Maureen

On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 23:28:03 -0500, Sunny wrote (in article ):

Hear! Hear!

Maureen

I haven't read the rest of the posts [gotta run to work, will do it later], but I agree with you, Polly. Recently I got a email update from a friend's shop, and had to write back and point out the typos. I do that at work, also, much to the chagrin of many fellow court clerks. My [literal] red pen is famous in those hallways ;) And yes, I have gently corrected people at work, all the way up to the Chief Executive Officer who obviously doesn't read what he writes before hitting send, or use spellcheck feature.

G> Please do forgive me for my Cranky Pants Polly howling. =A0I don't know i= f the

In my book, that apostrophe had absolutely no business being there! :)

CaroleD - Retired and loving it in the foothills of NW GA >^..^<

Oh, dear. I do hope she wasn't an English major (at least that was the class in which we learned proper punctuation)!Nope, the rules haven't changed, and you're entitled to howl.

I worked with a man who used to write, "The news segment was two minute's long." This was someone in his 40s, so I don't think it's anything recent. I was shocked by some of the punctuation and grammatical errors I saw written - by highly educated individuals - in letters to clients. But, of course, they thought I was just being "picky" about those details.

I don't know where haitch came from either, Jeanne. I cringe each time I hear it. I mean, it's more effort to say than aitch, so why even do it?

The one that gets me the most though is 'aks' instead of ask. I can't even say it when I try to pronounce it wrongly! I hear quite a few people using it though. I just don't know how the simple a-s-k gets rearranged.

Ah well, I'm sure I have my faults too. :-)