Terribly OT opinions requested...

Karlee, I've only been a Mom once, but I felt a lot like you did. I delivered almost a month early, we didn't tell anyone I was in labor except my best friend and we only told her because we were all supposed to have lunch together that day. Needless to say, I missed lunch. My mom had died by the time I had Perry so I didn't have to deal with that. We had my Dad in for one half hour of "grandson holding" and my inlaws in for the same. After I went home, I told everyone I was turning off the phone, no visitors until we said it was OK. Everyone was pretty cool with that. If you get an argument, tell them the hospital (or your doctor) has new rules and you can only have one person in L & D with you. Most hospitals here follow that rule anyway. Good luck. Remember, this is YOUR baby, not your Mom's or your Mother in laws. You deserve the kind of delivery YOU want. If they give you a hard time, tell them they are upseting you and your doctor has told you to avoid stress (not really a lie since stress is felt by the baby). Patti

vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from "Karlee in Kansas" :

]Mom has her nose out of place because I told her that she and everyone else can wait in the waiting room...

well, my nose only stayed out of joint about five minutes - long enough for the nurses and doc to do their thing and give me a baby to hold.

along that line - i had HER, my first, in a hospital where i worked. BIG mistake. you're right - everyone and their uncle "stopped by".

go with your instincts and stick to it.

----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)

Bill of Rights - Void where prohibited by Law.Regime Change in 2004 - The life you save may be your own.

Karlee, those are your choices to make, and no one else's. I'm glad you're standing firm. It's not up to anyone else to agree or disagree or to understand. It might be time to give an "end of discussion" ultimatum. Or, at least, turn it around and ask mom how she would have felt if someone was trying to tell her what she should and shouldn't do during YOUR birth.

Karlee:

Not that I am anywhere close to "qualifying" to answer your question, being a guy, but my jaw absolutely dropped when I read your post. Your mom is way way way out of line as far as I can see it. It is completely your decision, and only magnified by the many details that you bring up. Mom: NO MEANS NO!

Stick to your guns, and best of luck!

--Dave

like the input of anyone that has been a "new

people that I will allow in the labor and delivery

hospital staff (kept to a minimum....i.e. *no

stopping by to check on me and seeing me laid

mom will be lucky if she gets within 5 miles

people that enjoy watching a baby being born.

feel like having the world look at my private

during the birthing process. This is a personal

people, but it bothers me.

else can wait in the waiting room...I don't want

lost my life during my first experience with

MUCH less than professional...they giggled at

was dilated.) She thinks that everyone that

problem with people seeing my neither regions

nurses are going to be coming and going anyway, you

duration in the hospital, I only want my kids

baby, kidlet the first, and the new daddy. It

to hold Ellie hours after her birth like she

to rest and get acquainted with the baby

if memory serves me correctly). Last time I

make it near impossible to rest. Staff would

I am requesting surgical sterilization after

pregnancy is on me and neither one of us want

barrel of monkeys) Both me and DH love and

increase with each one (according to doc, who btw,

kids in the future, that we will adopt. (I,

in all my glory whilst I feel terribly

my hospital room into a major hub of

pregnancy, labor, and delivery, and two kids, that

from my mom on these topics to last a

I'm with you on all counts, Karlee. It's YOUR birthing and YOUR decision. Moms have a tough time letting their kids be moms on their own, but, well.....tough! I totally agree about the circus-like nature of some births, and that's just from the staff! You need whatever you need to do the work of labor (it IS work) and also, not to sound negative but should there be any complications, hustling non-essential personnel out is a major mess.

Post delivery, again, wise call. Bless my mom, she was very non-circus about things too. I had c-sections (by surprise) both times and she was a wonder helping me out...right until I brought my baby home the first time (she had complications and stayed a week beyond me) and right until my son and I came home the second time (she helped out with my daughter). There's plenty of time (years and years) to do extended bonding afterwards. I WILL say, though, I really could've used her help longer the second time.

As far as getting "fixed" goes again, that's YOUR decision to make, and nobody else's. I will tell you that I loved being pregnant, but had lousy

3rd trimesters and deliveries both times. The second was something I will never share with a mom-to-be, though I'm a lot more mellow about it now. My boy was a moose and did not get born easily. While they were preparing to close I asked about more kids (I'd really wanted a bigger family). The doc advised me that I'd formed adhesions from the first c-section and that while I had a good labor right until the end the second time (I was aiming for VBAC) any subsequent babies would be automatic C-secs. Nope, uh-uh, NOT doing that a third time! Unfortunately it was a catholic hospital (what was I thinking???) so they wouldn't fix me. My ex did the deed a few weeks later.

My experience, my judgement, etc was unique to my situation....just as yours is to you. If your DH and you agree that enough is enough, it's nobody else's business. And, coming from a kid who's adopted, and a mom who desperately wished to have her own kids, be delighted with what you (will) have. Tell your mom her opinion is noted and you understand how eager she is and how much she cares about you, and ask her to please respect your decisions for YOUR family.

Hugs and good luck,

-- KarenK Desert Dreamer Designs

Store:

Karlee, It's obvious that your mom has never been in your situation or she would be more sensitive to it. No - stick to your guns about the delivery room. She has no right to impose her wants, she has to remember that she is NOT the center of attention here! However, as a grandmother, I do understand her desire to see the baby as soon as possible and to hold it. I think you should relent on this after she promises to only stay one hour and not bring anyone else with her. No one else needs to be there, but the grandmother does have some rights here. IMHO, of course. As for your other question - again, it's none of her business. Just answer her by saying, I'm following the advice of my doctor. That's it. end of story. And here's a tip for you. Ask her to help you in some way. Make her feel important, either by baby sitting with your older child, or helping you clean while you are in the hospital or doing some cooking for you - whatever would work best for you. My feeling is that if you make her part of the process, you will both feel better about the whole thing. I hope it works out exactly the way you want it. Can't wait to see baby pictures! Cheri (Bubbee to Emily and Nathan)

These are your desicions to make, not your mom's and whether she likes it or not you have the right to keep her and all other vistors other than your husband and child out...You have every right to be "alone" (I put alone in quotes meaning no other family other than your other child and your husband) during the birth and afterward. Tell your mom and all the family to leave, and they can see Elle through the nursery window or after you bring her home. There is no need for a million people to parade through the room (thankfully my mom and Michael's (my hubby) parents where the only ones who came to see us in the hospital...my mom stayed with us for a few days to help out.)

I think your desicion to be sterilized is wise if you have had so many problems with your pregnancies. It definetly saves on the chances that you could get pregnant again and have it be harder the next time around. There are alot of children who need good homes waiting to be adopted (speaking from a general point of view here, despite the fact that I spent just short of 10 yrs in the State of Maine's custody, for reasons will not be discussed further).

Good luck with your desicions Karlee. Don't let your mom make you feel bad and sure as hell don't let her tell you what she wants...well she can but that doesn't mean she will get it...don't let her make you feel guilty for not wanting other people around either...You've got enough sh*t to worry about right now without her butting in.

Marissa

like the input of anyone that has been a "new

people that I will allow in the labor and delivery

hospital staff (kept to a minimum....i.e. *no

stopping by to check on me and seeing me laid

mom will be lucky if she gets within 5 miles

people that enjoy watching a baby being born.

feel like having the world look at my private

during the birthing process. This is a personal

people, but it bothers me.

else can wait in the waiting room...I don't want

lost my life during my first experience with

MUCH less than professional...they giggled at

was dilated.) She thinks that everyone that

problem with people seeing my neither regions

nurses are going to be coming and going anyway, you

duration in the hospital, I only want my kids

baby, kidlet the first, and the new daddy. It

to hold Ellie hours after her birth like she

to rest and get acquainted with the baby

if memory serves me correctly). Last time I

make it near impossible to rest. Staff would

I am requesting surgical sterilization after

pregnancy is on me and neither one of us want

barrel of monkeys) Both me and DH love and

increase with each one (according to doc, who btw,

kids in the future, that we will adopt. (I,

in all my glory whilst I feel terribly

my hospital room into a major hub of

pregnancy, labor, and delivery, and two kids, that

from my mom on these topics to last a

No, no, and no, in that order. In more detail:

It's YOUR labor and delivery. If you and your husband want it private, no one else has any say in the matter. Period.

It's YOUR baby. I agree with you -- there's plenty of time for visiting after you're settled in at home. You might offer to let her help you with the transition from hospital to home, if you're comfortable with that compromise.

It's YOUR body. Under those conditions, I'd make the same decision in a heartbeat. Tell your mother that you want to be around to watch the kids you already have grow up.

Celine

Tina, she's *got* two kids already. I don't think the "you might remarry and want children" argument really holds under those circumstances. And given a history of difficult pregnancies, I have to say that I don't think her mother really has her best interests at heart.

Celine

They probably were. The idea that a pregnant women should have *any* control over herself and her situation has been completely absent from Western culture for so long that it almost counts as an entirely new notion.

Celine

But 27 is still very young to be certain that she will never remarry and wish for children. The biggest consideration is that it might damage her health.

What I really hesitate to say though, is that coming from a family with such trauma as she has told us of quite often, limiting children is also a good idea.

Tina

Hi, Karlee! Boy, I wish your family (and his) would let you have an easier time of it in these last few weeks. Sheesh! Here's my two cents:

Your delivery/your choices. My first son ended up being an emergency c-section so it sort of wasn't an issue. With my second son who was a scheduled c-section, unbeknownst to me, DH had given permission for students to be in there. It was an awful thing to me. I view childbirth in whatever form as a highly personal deal and that was taken from me. Grrrrr....

Postdelivery, you plan sounds amazingly sane and farsighted. Wish I'd thought of it. You have my wholehearted support in this and my encouragement to not let family descend on you once you're home until

*you're* ready.

Lastly, I applaud your choice re the tubal. I had it done at 30 when my second son was born. I *knew* that with our two little ones and my three stepkids that I couldn't financially, emotionally, or timewise do any more kids. I had planned to stop after our first son but didn't do the tubal. Then Nic came and was a very happy surprise but the day I found out I was pregnant, I knew that was it. No more. Maddeningly, Rich had to sign a *permission form allowing* me to have the tubal since he was my husband. AAARRGGH!

Karlee, hon, these are all highly personal choices and, while you might ask for input from us or family or other friends, you and DH are the only ones with the right to make the choices. And no one should judge you for them.

Blessed be.

Shelby Karlee > Please don't label me as a horrible person for these things, but I would like

the input of anyone that has been a "new

that I will allow in the labor and delivery

hospital staff (kept to a minimum....i.e. *no

duration in the hospital, I only want my kids

baby, kidlet the first, and the new daddy. It

hold Ellie hours after her birth like she

rest and get acquainted with the baby

memory serves me correctly). Last time I

it near impossible to rest. Staff would

am requesting surgical sterilization after

pregnancy is on me and neither one of us want

barrel of monkeys) Both me and DH love and

with each one (according to doc, who btw,

from my mom on these topics to last a

I opted for privacy also with all 3 of my children. Husband and Medical Staff only.

Paula

CLP wrote | Karlee - I opt for a more peaceable solution. Maybe your Mom is feeling less | and less needed by you & maybe she is having hormonal surges of her own at | her age of mid-life and is feeling very insecure. Do you see where I'm going with this?.

Yep, but my mom HAS to be in control of EVERY situation that she is in or exposed to. That includes every aspect of my life. I just responded to Kathy's post and told about my mothers reaction to my pain when I was in Labor. I was told that it didn't hurt that much and I needed to leave the staff alone, (Don't they get paid to take care of my pain anymore????) and that I needed to quit screaming with every contraction. SHE has never been through labor and doesn't realize how much it friggin HURTS. I don't really want that crap again this time around (I've heard that labor hurts more with every kidlet)

| Whether it's stressing how much you rely on her help after the baby and you | have settled in at home, or asking for her help now for an occasional | massage, go for a pedicure together and talk about what it was like for her | when the 2nd child came (assuming you had siblings) - Somehow, give her a | job, make her an important part. Make her feel needed and wanted - in short, | do what you would want your daughter to do for you! We are all "just" women, | and I don't mean that in a demeaning way. What I mean is that we are all | just trying to make our way in this world. A gentle word and tender heart go | a long, long way. And the more peace you try to give, the more peaceful you | will become.

I fully understand where you are coming from. Mom and I haven't really been what I would consider close. She is VERY pushy and VERY adamant about me doing things HER way or they are considered wrong. In her eyes, I'm inadequate and should not be left to do anything on my own. I have never, in my short 27 years on this planet, felt "good enough" for either of my parents. Letting her clean for me, or asking for help, only reinforces my inadequacies to her, and will in turn make my life harder.

| | As far as sterilization is concerned, I would think that is your business, | and you mightn't want to discuss a lot of real personal stuff like that with | anyone other than your husband. you certainly could pull up articles from | the web about successful tubal ligation reversals, or adoption stats, but | bottom line - it's your business, not anyone else's. So the answer to that | is, "Discussion over. We feel differently, so let's just not have the | conflict, ok? I really want to enjoy our mother-daughter time now, because | I sure am going to be busy in a little while!" | I hope I haven't overstepped any boundries or offended you in any way. I | just see so much bad feelings arise in families when kindness will have such | a reversing effect.

Nope, haven't stepped on any toes. I asked for advice (but not flames) and have gotten advice. Depending on how the next couple months goes, I might just "see what happens if....." but I highly doubt that it will entail giving her any control over anything in my life, even for a little while. (Just a side note, I'm adopted, so she knows the ins and outs of that, that is why I can't figure out why she is throwing such a fit about the sterilization....)

| be well

TY :-) you too!

Hugs Karlee in Kansas

Karlee, I've never had children but this isn't about that. It's a boundary issue. This is about *your* body, *your* pain, *your* wishes and *your* choices.

Anyone who can't respect your right to set boundaries where they are comfortable for you regarding issues as personal as childbirth and fertility is being selfish and childish. Your mom may be your mom, but you are an adult, and at the moment she is treating you like property, not like a thinking, feeling, capable human being. I would simply tell her that these issues aren't up for discussion and remove them from the table.

Kindly and politely decline involvement in further discussion on these issues and avoid getting drawn into arguments with your mom about this. It really isn't her business, and you do not need the added stress at this time. You have every right to make your own decisions about this and to be as firm as necessary in making sure those decisions are respected.

Laura

like the input of anyone that has been a "new

Your body, your baby, your birth experience...it's your decision. If she continues to nag/complain about it, just remind her that it's not a reflection on her or your relationship with her, but that you've come to feel that birth is a private experience for you and your husband.

Oh boy, I love giving my opinion!!! LOL.

1. You have a perfect right to ask for people, including your Mom, not to be in the delivery room. She is the one being unreasonable if she does not want to respect your wishes. Delivery is a very private, intense time.
2. It might be nice if you allowed a brief hospital visit. This is your mother's grandchild, after all, and she is excited too. But she has to understand that you, for the most part, would prefer continued privacy. If she wants to stop for an hour, that wouldn't be so unreasonable. If she can't be trusted to respect your wishes and need for peace and quiet, then maybe she shouldn't come. If my daughter would not let me visit her in the hospital after she had a baby, I would be pretty hurt. However, I hope I would be sensitive enough to her needs to limit the time and "volume" if she needed space.
3. Think long and hard about the sterilization. What if, god forbid, you were in an accident and you lost your children. Certainly this is very unlikely, but not impossible. We have some close friends who chose his vasectomy after their second child. Their second child died last year. Now they want to be pregnant again and have reversed the surgery, however, this is not always as simple and successful as one would hope. The bottom line is, they will have to spend about 10,000 dollars for a procedure to have a pregnancy. Again, no guarantees. They are heartbroken and all the problems with getting pregnant just intensify their pain. If you truly are okay with adoption and another pregnancy is dangerous, then you are probably making the right decision. I guess what I am saying is, there is no harm is waiting and using birth control for awhile. It's one hell of a big decision.

Sorry you are going through all this BS with your Mom. Hope you can resolve it. It does sound as though she needs to back off and let you liveyour own life a bit more.

like the input of anyone that has been a "new

people that I will allow in the labor and delivery

hospital staff (kept to a minimum....i.e. *no

stopping by to check on me and seeing me laid

mom will be lucky if she gets within 5 miles

people that enjoy watching a baby being born.

feel like having the world look at my private

during the birthing process. This is a personal

people, but it bothers me.

else can wait in the waiting room...I don't want

lost my life during my first experience with

MUCH less than professional...they giggled at

was dilated.) She thinks that everyone that

problem with people seeing my neither regions

nurses are going to be coming and going anyway, you

duration in the hospital, I only want my kids

baby, kidlet the first, and the new daddy. It

to hold Ellie hours after her birth like she

to rest and get acquainted with the baby

if memory serves me correctly). Last time I

make it near impossible to rest. Staff would

I am requesting surgical sterilization after

pregnancy is on me and neither one of us want

barrel of monkeys) Both me and DH love and

increase with each one (according to doc, who btw,

kids in the future, that we will adopt. (I,

in all my glory whilst I feel terribly

my hospital room into a major hub of

pregnancy, labor, and delivery, and two kids, that

from my mom on these topics to last a

"Karlee, Your mom needs to take a pill. Or, as I've suggested before: tranquilizer darts. Slip some roofies in her drink, and let her wake up a week later, a cast member in the worldwide tour of "Up with People!" :-)"

OMG!! LOL. KathyH

Playing Devil's Advocate here... this may indeed be correct. Equally likely is that Karlee's mother is a control freak with severe boundary issues, and only interested in Having Things Her Own Way. We aren't there, but from some of the scenarios Karlee has described, it certainly sounds to *me* as though her mother has trouble accepting her as a separate person rather than a self-extension.

Unfortunately, the only cure I was ever able to find for that particular problem was simply shutting my parents out of anything but the most superficial contact with my life, since nothing about it pleased them because it wasn't what *they* would have done, and they were constitutionally incapable of keeping that displeasure (and their recommendations for fixing me) to themselves.

Celine