1/2" bowl gouge

Questions:

Is the Ellsworth Signature gouge, made by Taylor, worth the extra cash?

Is Taylor's Artisan line, at lower cost, a good investment, or should I opt for the more expensive standard tools? The only difference claimed is finish, which is irrelevant IMO.

How about Hamlet's M2 gouges? Are they as good as Taylor's or Sorby's?

Any other recommendations?

TIA

Max

Reply to
Maxprop
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Hmmm, 3rd try at this. I get an error message, hope this doesn't show up

3 times....

The Ellsworth Signature gouge is worth something if you want to see exactly how David grinds his, which is what works best for him the way he prefers to use a gouge. He likes to do a lot of shear scraping with his gouge, and grinds it appropriately. I prefer to use a separate tool for shear scraping and use a different grind on my gouges better suited for cleanest cuts on the timbers I typically use. There are tons of variations on how to grind a gouge and everyone pretty much developes their own style after a while, but if you are a beginner, it's a place to start. Of course, after you have resharpened it a few times on the first day you use it you will probably have altered the shape of the grind, so then you are back to where you would be with any gouge.

I often use those and frankly can't tell any practical difference between them and more expensive HSS tools. People who hone their edges say a polished flute is better for them, but straight from the grinder I see no difference.

I boycott the Hamlet line after some reported underhanded business practices on their part a couple years ago. There was a lot of discussion about it here in the newsgroup for a while. See the archives if you want details.

best wishes,

-mike paulson, fort collins, co

Reply to
Mike Paulson

Max

It's no good just comparing the bowl gouge from different manufacturers without considering the different flute profiles of those gouges. I may be wrong but I think the Ellsworth gouge has a flute profile based on a parabolic curve similar to the masterflute range of Hamlet. If you look at the Henry Taylor superflute range it has a more V profile compared with their standard U profile and the Hamlet standard U profile. I think Sorby only do the U profile. The parabolic flute profiles I find are more suited to the Celtic/Swept back/Ellsworth grind whereas the V profiles I like for long grinds. Regarding Hamlet's M2 gouges I find their tools to be manufactured to a high standard as are Taylor's. I'm not too keen on Sorby's but that a personal view.

Good luck Mark Hancock South Wales, UK

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Reply to
Mark Hancock

Hi Max, Of course you know this, but just to emphasize and agree with what Mike & Mark said better. When you choose a bowl gouge the integrity and track record of the maker, the size of the shaft, the shape of the flute, the quality and kind of the steel and to a large extent the finish and price of the tool are fixed, and experienced advice can be helpful. The bevel, the edge, the handle, the way the gouge is treated and how it's used are up to you. Regards, Arch

Fortiter,

Reply to
Arch

This thread is interesting and instructive. To reply to the original query "Is it worth paying for better higher grade bowl gouge" My input is if you are serious woodturner that cannot make his own gouge my answer is Yes. How you value your time and satisfaction of your work is not the same for everyone. Lower grade steel will work good as long as your grinder is close to you and you do not price the cost of the grinding wheel, dresser and extra power sanding.

I am getting suspicious when I see a gouge stamped "Sheffield England" instead of "Made in Sheffield England", The question is are the blanks made in Sheffield or imported ? One of my friend demonstrated to my the use of the "Sheffield England" gouge in comparison to one made by the local shop with heavy drop forge press. The results were in favor of the gouge made by the local shop. What I saw was less time spent at the grinder and less tear outs in cherry, black locust, walnut and others.

Reply to
Denis Marier

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NO, NO, NO. Arch, you must know that the gouge must be used exactly as it is described in the all books; and in all the varied ways they're told to use it here on this newsgroup. {:o))

Ken Moon Weberville, TX

Reply to
Ken Moon

A long time ago phrases like "Made in Sheffield England" and "Solingen Steel" really meant something because the quality of the steel depended in large part on the quality of local ores. This has become virtually meaningless in modern times with the current state of metalurgical knowledge and worldwide access to minerals and rare elements. Manufacturers still like to hype those phrases, though, in the hope that it can give them an edge (pun) in a competitive market. Appreciation of historical tradition is a motivating influence for many people and not necessarily a bad thing. Just recognize it for what it is and don't think it means you are getting a superior product based on that.

-mike paulson, fort collins, co

Reply to
Mike Paulson

I've seen similar opinions voiced by others in other genera of woodworking arts. And I agree that the core meaning of such phrases has been lost for the most part. However I think it is worthwhile to point out that such phrases were coined during that period when the disparities in metallurgy were significant and substantive. Today the number of superior alloys far exceeds those with lesser qualities. Ultimately those phrases simply lack the import they once did. There are poor steels claiming to be HSS, but it becomes readily apparent when one encounters such steels. For the most part a reputable tool maker will fabricate his tools with quality alloys, despite the presence or lack of the Sheffield or Solingen monikers.

Max

Reply to
Maxprop

Hi Max,

I've taken a course with David, and got used to his style of grind and like it. But as the others have said, and as David pointed out in his class it also depends on the shape of the flute - and his gouge is designed with that in mind for that style of grind.

I've used the version of his tool that Crown makes, and really like it. Haven't used the Taylor. And I can't really comment on Taylor overall. I have used the Hamlet 2030 and 2060 steel tools, and really like them. Gradually, as I wear down old gouges and replace them I am replacing them with either Hamlets 2030/2060's or Crown's Pro Pm line, or when I can afford them a Glaser tool or two.

Are they worth the extra money? In the long run - yes. If you are still getting used to your tools and grinding them, then no, you would just be paying extra money to learn with.

The Taylor artisan line, the low end Hamlets or Sorby or some of the other cheaper brands are good to learn with. Just look for a decent quality looking tool. But do take a look at and compare the flute shapes of the various bowl gouges. Personally, I prefer the U shape as opposed to the V flute.

Reply to
Jim M

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