Which Bowl Gouge To Buy?

It kinda depends on what you like to turn, but I think if I were you, I'd go for the 1/2 inch tool and ignore the elsworth (you are paying for his name and you can duplicate the grind) and the PM ($$ and doesn't get quite as sharp) - if $$ are important, and it sounds like they are, consider getting the tool without a handle and making your own - that saves you a fair amount - make the ferrule on the handle out of a short scrap of EMT or copper pipe.

then make grind the tip the way you think you want it.

My lathe is a bit bigger than yours, but I use mostly a 1/2 inch gouge and a

5/8 glaser gouge and (believe it or not) a really old carbon steel (not HSS!!!) crafstman (!!!) spindle gouge - you can get a shaper edge on carbon steel than HSS but it doesn't last as long.

I mainly agree with Bill N -- 1/2" is the most useful size and buy unhandled.

Why are you limiting your choices to those sold by Woodcraft? You can buy the P & N HSS 1/2" bowl gouge unhandled for $39.00 + shipping --

This tool is a class act -- unlike the Asian imports which may or may not be real tools.

Bill R

William Noble wrote:

If it were me (and it's not), I'd go with a 3/8" conventional grind handled Sorby. In fact, I did when I was in your shoes.

Why? Size - It will be easy for you to overpower and stall your lathe with a 1/2" bowl gouge, which doesn't hurt anything, but is annoying. Grind - I agree with the other folks that you'll develop your own grind soon enough, so save the extra money for someone else's version of your favorite grind. And that stalling thing will happen much more as you try to use those wonderfully large side grinds. Handled - buy your first handled, so that you can get to turning immediately. There'll be plenty of time later to save money turning your own handles. Brand - Go for reliable, high quality that won't break the bank. There'll be plenty of other bowl gouges in your future. Make the first one a rock-solid basic model that you can learn from.

Michael Latcha - at home in Redford, MI

--www.packardwoodworks.com.

I'll second that. Two things I'd add. It's easier to control a tool that's a little too big than one that's a little too small. I'd certainly go for the 1/2". I'd use the grind it comes with untill I got a sharpening system (like a Wolverine).

I fear you're in for a disappointment. The main reason the tools dull is the silica and such in the wood abrading the edge. The reason we use alloy rather than high carbon is for its resistance to heat breakdown. That's your department. Don't press too hard and you'll develop less heat. You'll also keep the piece on its mount and preserve your elbow. Best cut is the one that takes the least effort.

Only thing I would recommend would be a U over a V shape. I get to heavy hogging and the shavings fold sometimes in a V rather than flow in a U . That jams the business end, and I'm never quite bright enough to remember to push out from inside the flute rather than brush my hand over the folded wood that barely conceals the sharp edges.

Darrell's point about the Oland is well taken. If you're hogging only, and using faceplates versus chuck mounts, you might find that a good way to go. I prefer a gouge, but others like the Hippy use broad methods on wet wood all the time too. Advantage to the gouge is that it makes a good controlled cut dry as well as a poke and swoop hogging one. Hogging still.

Peeling video. "Bowl" gouge first, but no roll to the wings to speak of, then a flat 1/8" thick 1/2 wide forged gouge with a loose handle to trim.

Contrary to the rest of the group, I'd suggest going a bit less quality and more bang for the buck...

When I was where you're at a few years ago, I bought this set from Penn State, figuring to upgrade later...

I'm still using them, a few hundred turnings later for everything from bowls to roughing pen blanks.. For the price of one "signature" bowl gouge, you get 2 HSS gouges and 2 scrapers... YMWV

mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Hello Joel,

You've had a lot of advice and most of it is good. Many years ago, I was at your point in time and I purchased a Robert Sorby spindle gouge. And, after using it for a short time, I managed to afford a Robert Sorby 3/8" bowl gouge. I've never regretted either purchase. Currently, I have bowl gouges by Robert Sorby, Crown, Hamlet, and Ashley Iles. I do not own any of the inexpensive brand tools, nor will I waste money on them.

For your size lathe, a 3/8" bowl gouge will be most useful and as someone mentioned will not load your lathe down quite as much. Incidentally, I use the Ellsworth grind on virtually all of my bowl gouges. It is a grind that will take you from the rim of the bowl all of the way to the bottom in one pass without having to change tools, otherwise you need two gouges or need to regrind your gouge to finish the bottom of the bowl. The Ellsworth jig (available from several sources and I believe Woodcraft sells it) is designed for a 5/8" bowl gouge, but I use it to grind 1/2" and 3/8" tools as well.

Buy a good quality tool and you'll never regret it.

Fred Holder

I very much agree on Penn State Benamin Best HSS tools. I got them to experiment with different grinds so I wouldn't use up my Sorby's. They have much appreciated longer handles, and longer piece of steel. I use them more than my Sorby. They do stain more, but they hold their edge just as well as the Sorby as best I can tell. Select individual tools (not the sets) you need from this page:

For example a 3/8" bowl gouge for $14 and maybe a 3/8" spindle gouge for $11 and a heavy 18" long 1" scraper for $15 and maybe even the 1/2" bowl gouge too for $15 I have been VERY satisfied with all these for nearly 2 years. I have heard nothing but good news about these. They do break the rule that you get what you pay for. IF you are on a limited budget this is the best way to go. If you have the money they are still a great value for extra tools to supplement your grind choices. .

Well, the feel of a tool is mostly a function of the handle system. When you buy unhandled, then you can make the feel anything you want it to be. I like my gouges to have long handles, e very heavy when I turn and very light when I grind. So, I use the Oneway 17" handles (there are many others on the market like this) and take the gouge out of the handle for grinding -- it only takes a few seconds. With a little ingenuity and a little time, you can easily make a removable handle.

Even with 10 percent off, I don't think that anything Woodcraft has is as good a deal as doing what I've suggested. I'm guessing that a large number of us who have been doing this for a while, don't buy what the chain retail stores stock. There must be a reason.

Bill

skidog wrote:

I'm with Mac, for starting out, (and learning to grind) cheap is good. Later, real money is required

Joel asked whether to buy a 3/8" or 1/2" bowl gouge and which is the best value for the dollar, Pinnacle. Sorby, Ellsworth Signature or Crown Pro PM. Clearly there are other options to be considered re tools for turning small bowls such as 7/16" gouges, inserted bits, forged flutes, and several smaller maker's tools new to the market.

Some of us wonder if cost is an object, then might not the "best value for the dollar" depend as much on the stage of the turner's expertise and his tool stable as on how much better a premium tool is and where and by whom it was made.

The argument re getting only the '''best" tools one at a time when they can be afforded vs buying or making several not quite as 'good', but affordable tools to begin with will never be settled. That being so, it serves no purpose to denigrate another turner's chosen turning tools. I don't think anyone prefers the lesser tools over the premiums if cost is truly no object, but in truth, cost often is.

With the wide availability of sharpening instructions and devices that make good sharpening quick and easy for everyone, why is so much emphasis put on the need to pay a premium for a tool that's said to hold it's edge a while longer? Are these premium tools so much better in other ways that can justify their high prices?

Why term the Asian imports "junk", even if the hss is not the best. My hss Harbor Freight's don't seem to be junk, at least not when rehandled, reground and polished (improvements a woodturner shouldn't need to pay for) .....and the country of origin rubbed off. :)

Like using scapers and turning robust bowl walls, my buying an affordable _set of turning tools isn't a 'no-no'. It's just a myth from the past, .....but then YMMV :)

Turn to Safety, Arch Fortiter

Hello Joel,

I'm a professional bowl turner and I have numerous bowl gouges made by Henry Taylor, Kelton, Crown, Sorby, Asley Isles, Pinnacle, Hamlet, Craft Supplies "Artisan" brand (by Henry Taylor), Oneway, Serious, P&N and Glaser. I also have cryogenically treated versions of most of these tools as well.

I turn on a large Oneway 2436, but I also have a Jet mini lathe that is similar to your Delta Midi. I've also demonstrated extensively across the country at The Woodworking Shows on various large and small lathes, including a Jet mini. I've even turned bowls on the Jet mini, with 1/2" and

3/8" bowl gouges. I agree with Fred Holder on the size recommendation. A 1/2" bowl gouge will stall your Delta Midi motor too often, get the 3/8" bowl gouge and you will be a lot happier.

A 3/8" gouge will be able to do just about anything on a bowl you want to on your Delta and it will leave you a few bucks to do something else with... :-) As for the brand, I have most everything out there and they all work. Differences in true M2HSS bowl gouges from one to another are minimal, for example, flute design "V", or "U", the amount of finishing to the shaft and the flute, handle (if any) design and construction, Rockwell hardness rating (most are about the same), adjunctive processes like cryogenic treatments and the overall quality of the grinding of the flute to name a few.

If you boil it all down, any of the brands you mention will be a good bowl gouge for you. If you're starting out and are tight on funds, then stick with a 3/8" deep fluted bowl gouge (I prefer the "V" style of flute, others like the "U", both are good) from any of the brands you mention. Let you decision be guided by the lowest price you can get (sale?) including your

10% discount and start making some shavings. I also agree with Fred's recommendation about getting quality tools... In the end, you save money by buying good quality tools from the get-go.

If you're unsure of how to sharpen your tools, join a woodturning club (or if you're already in one, ask a few of the more experienced blokes to give you a wee bit of a helping hand), or try to find another woodturner in your area that can help you get started on the right foot. If you're already an experienced sharpener, you're good to go...

In the end, you will never regret buying good quality tools, but you may regret buying lesser quality tools. This is not to say that you can't get buy for a while using an inexpensive gouge like some have mentioned. I started out 12 years ago with a $39.00, 6" dry grinder and I used it for five years in my production studio. I now have two 8" dry grinders that cost $850.00 each and another that was about $250.00, not to mention three Tormek wet grinders.

You'll find that there are 100 answers to every question in woodturning, so you have to be the ultimate judge of what is best for your personal beliefs and your pocketbook. Remember also, that your bowl gouge will likely last you many years as a hobby turner, so the initial cost averaged over many years will be minimal. My first bowl gouge lasted about 7 years before it was toast, after having worked on several thousand bowls. Good luck to you and best wishes in all of your woodturning endeavours!

I have purchased premade wood handles from CraftSuppliesUSA. They sell P&N unhandled tools too. All my McNaughton coring tools have their own wood handle. All you have to do is drill holes in the end. They are prefinished. I think the biggest are around $7. Sure you can make your own, but if time savings is the issue, you can be ahead to buy.

Derek

Ralph.. To clarify that a bit, IMHO cheap is bad, but inexpensive is ok..

I bought a $20 set of Harbor Fright chisels to practice sharpening, and they were CHEAP... Ok, steel, but way too thin to use safely...

The PSI chisels are much thicker and seem to hold an edge as well as my more expensive chisels... and they're used daily... YMWV

mac

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Some good points as usual, Arch..

I relate it to flat work... There are much better/expensive saws, planers, etc. that someone with more skill than I would appreciate... At my stage.skill level, the fact that my ts and planer were inexpensive enough for me to buy means that I HAVE them... Maybe a good example would be stereo equipment... Folks spend a LOT of money on speakers and stuff to reproduce sounds that I can't hear, or miss in my music..

Related question: How much better would/wood my bowls be if I used a $150 bowl gouge?

mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Either that wasn't the HSS set, or they've changed it. I bought one several years ago and it was a great learners set. And it was cheap enough that I didn't mind wasting a lot of metal to learn how to sharpen.

While I have better quality tools now, I haven't thrown away the HF HSS set. And if it hasn't changed I'd still recommend it as a starter set.