Can tools be too sharp?

I have had the same observation. I have bought all types of turning tools from the cheap asian imports to the black handled Crown ProPM pwdered metallurgy tools, and much in-between. The oak is hard and is creating a bur (bending the weak tip due to sharp angle on softer steel) on your not so hard asian metal. By grinding specialty use tools - I have found uses for most of the tools I bought - even the crap ones from China - although some (Pinnacle) seem very good for $. Buy another higher quality steel skew and I'll bet your issues are resolved. Some might say you only need a few tools to do everything. Myself - I have been turnig for only about 1 1/2 years and I now have

50 -60 turning tools...and i play with all of em all over a week period of turning. Buy more and learn by experience - it'sthe only true teacher. As a side note - I have found some of the older US or Sheffield made carbon steel tools (not HSS) (Ebay) to be very nice - can be sharpened to a fine edge and hold a bur nicely ..although of course you will be going to the grinder much more often than with harder metal. Also if you want to home hat tereat those older steels - seems to work well. Some of the asian imports are not hard or hardened at all...I have put in a vise and bend at 90 degrees without breaking

- that's not hard or hardened. I have never tried home hardening the asian crap....

So your included angle is too acute, and you're turning the steel? I suppose that's possible, even with brittle HSS alloys, but if you make the entry cut with the bisected angle nearly perpendicular to the grain and then seek a bevel as you sweep into the cut, should work anyway. I keep a nearly

2:1 bevel (single) on my chisel and it does red oak pretty well. Get too broad an included angle with the skew and it'll have a tendency to run back at you. Most I see have a bevel to thickness ratio of about 1:1.2 for an included of around 50 degrees.

Certainly wouldn't hurt much to try that vicinity.

messagenews:RDgJh.4706$ snipped-for-privacy@newssvr11.news.prodigy.net...

I bought a chaep asian oval skew on ebay - has HSS stamped large on it

- the sparks look HSS from grinder. But the skew is made too thin along enire screw body, and the included angle that came with it was about 25 degrees. - it caused various probelms - some probably my technique. But i was pissed and near threw it away. Later I ground it back with a slight curve to the edge and an included angle of about 40 degree ( just eyeballng by hand) and works much better for me..What I first considered trash - i now use regualrly

"NoOne N Particular" wrote:in message news:RDgJh.4706$ snipped-for-privacy@newssvr11.news.prodigy.net...

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ The skew is not the ideal too for a beginner to learn on. A "nasty spiral" can be the consequence of a tiny error.

A narrow bevel on any cutting tool makes it cut better, and I am confident that in the hands of an experienced turner it could produce a very fine finish. But the price you pay for having a narrow bevel is in durability. Most people prefer a broader bevel that can last a while. An axe sharpened like that would last one chop.

This is the advice I was given by an experience turner when I was having skew trouble: Use it for EVERYTHING, including roughing. You need experience. And, if you use it on surfaces that still have enough wood left to correct errors, you won't be as tense--your errors will give you experience without anxiety.

messagenews:RDgJh.4706$ snipped-for-privacy@newssvr11.news.prodigy.net...> Hi all. I am new to turning having just bought a used Delta 14" lathe

Amen leo

A good general angle for a skew would be a 30 degree included angle between the two beveled faces. You'll find that this angle will be realized almost exactly when the length of the bevel is twice the thickness of the tool i.e. if the tool is 1/4" then each bevel shoud be about 1/2".

A 10-15 degree included angle would, IMHO, be way too narrow for a skew.

If you don't have a grinder(it sounds like you are sharpening by hand) then inquire of local turning club if anyone can help you regrind the skew to proper shape - I can't imagine trying to do by hand.

I would take a look at Alan Lacers video on the skew. He has a lot of good information and I think he uses 1 1/2 times the thickness of the skew for a bevel, but I could be wrong. The other think I like is he recommends using a dead center to drive your work. Tighten up on the tail stock for more drive. If you have a catch the piece will just stop. Removed all the fear out of using a skew. I understand he has a second DVD on projects using the skew, but I have not seen it. He also has a web site you can check out.

Bruce

Thanks for all the responses.

I have done a little more research and from other pictures I have seen of an oval skew chisel, the angles on mine seem to be about right. When I was talking about the bevel looking more like 10-15 deg, I was only speaking of a single bevel to the cutting edge. Taken as a hole using both bevels, the angle would be closer to 30 deg. when I am sharpening it, it looks like I am holding it at about a 15 deg angle from the stone.

I am kinda curious why I am only having problems with this oak when I go from my right to left. It was working fine for me going left-to-right (this oak, btw, is very dry. Musta been sitting in BigB for a long time.). I have used this same chisel on poplar, pine, and redwood from local sources. I have also used it on some limb wood from tree trimmings in my yard (I am just learning after all) and that includes some apple, peach, more redwood, and some ash. I even tried a small piece of a rose bush that my wife decided she no longer wanted. None of these woods gave me any significant trouble. I have also turned a few pens using several woods like Lignum Vitae, Honduran Rosewood, Bloodwood, Purpleheart, etc. I didn't use this skew chisel, but I did use a small oval skew chisel in the penturning set I bought. Does that count? I use the skew almost exclusively for pens.

Someone mentioned that it might be a cheap asian import, and I'm sure it is. If you know the brand it is called SteelX from Grissly. The other tools in the set are doing a fine job and I use the roughing gouge and the parting tool a LOT. As an aside note here, the tool handles on the SteelX tools are an exact copy of the Sorbys from the shape, the groves and their placement, right down to the brass button on the end of the handle. Just a different name on them. Funny.

As for sharpening the chisel, I do have a grinder with a Wolverine attached, but it is just so much quicker for me to grab my diamond stone. It is 12" long and lately has always been on my bench. I can just grab it, take it out of it's protective case, run a couple of passes and I'm done. To use my grinder I have to take the time to set it up and adjust it. pita.

I would like to get some training, but I don't think there is much in my area. The nearest club that I am aware of is the Diablo Woodworkers, but it is a little out of range. 45min to an hour drive. I live out on the border of who knows and nobody cares. I could buy a vid but that would mean that a tool with my name on it would have to stay lonely that much longer. I can't let that poor little tool go unbought.

Oh well. The bottom line is that it looks like the chisel is fine and I am not. More a problem with my technique than the chisel. May have to break down and buy the vid anyway.

Thanks for our help.

Wayne

Not having either seen the video or read the book, I would hazard a guess that you intended to say "Steb" center. A dead center doesn't rotate at all.

Bill

"NoOne N Particular" wrote in news:9UIJh.3863$ snipped-for-privacy@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net:

Diablo Woodworkers meets the second Wednesday evening at 7 at the old Pleasant Hill High School, back near the shop wing. There's a turners' group meets the first Tuesday at Ygnacio Valley High, in their shop. No charge for either group, and a fine bunch of folks. We have people drive that far regularly.

Another new face would be welcome. It's generally worth the drive.

Patriarch

"Bill in Detroit" wrote: Not having either seen the video or read the book, I would hazard a guess that you intended to say "Steb" center. A dead center doesn't rotate at all. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ No, Bill, he's got it right. A dead center installed in the spindle rotates with the spindle, and drives the work by friction. This is how I was taught to turn letter openers. The wood is mounted off center to produce the oval blade--the slightest catch causes it to stall rather than break.

That is not long, I have a 45 min each way drive to go to the club twice per week, Thurs & Sat, could also go Mon but the fuel bill is high enough.

Alan, in Gosnells, Western Oz. VK6 YAB VKS 737 - W 6174

Yeah, I know I'm just being one of those whiney ass complainer types that always piss me off. But after 11 years of driving 70 miles just to get to work, wearing out two new cars and one old ass in the process, nowadays I even hate driving to the corner store. I don't even get to Rocklers more than once or twice a year now. And have you seen the price of diesel fuel lately? (more whining) It's higher than premium grade gasoline now. Dang! At about 5 gallons every trip that would be getting in the $20 range just for gas. Even at that I keep telling myself just to shut the (bleep) up and go! Haven't done it yet.

Wayne

Btw, I am on the Diablo Woodworkers email list. I'm not exactly sure how that happened since I didn't intentionally sign up for it, but I won't tell them if you don't. I have also bookmarked their website so I have a pretty good idea of their activities and schedule.

Ahhh ... I was thinking about a dead center in the tailstock. A Steb center will also allow the stock to stop upon a catch. I don't own one, but apparently there is some sort of a friction clutch involved.

Bill

Problem could be something as simple as your starting grip. If you're right handed, you probably start a right to left roll with your right hand palm up- thumb up at the end of the roll.

Rolling right to left,if you start the roll with your palm down your wrist is bent in an akward position but lets you finish the roll thumb up. If you start a left to right with your thumb up, and finish the cut plam up, as you roll the skew there can be a tendency to push the cutting edge back "uphill" - even just a ittle and you can get a spiral cut started.

Examine your right hand grip as you roll right to left and left to right. See if your thumb is up at the end of both rolls.

Are you cutting long point down or up? I get more spiral cuts long point up than long point down - but that could just be me.

Is the end of the handle higher or lower at the end of the roll than at the start? For me, if the handle ends up lower I get more spiral cuts.

Probably that's all clear as mud.

charlie b

ps: putting a slight curve to the cutting edge made using the skew a lot easier - for me.