King Canada KWL-1016C Any opinions on this lathe?

As far as quality is concern King Canada sells the same products as BusyBees. They buy from China and Taiwan and place their name of the machinery's. Their products are worth exactly the prices they are asking no more no less. King Canada are dealing with independent repair agents across Canada to service their equipment while under warranty. When the machinery's cannot be easily move King Canada will pay the repair agent to do house call. BusyBees, Delta and many others will not pay for house calls and you have to return the machinery to them to have a look at it. Before buying check to find out who has been contracted by KIngCanada in your area to be their repair agent. Then ask him how he handles warranty repair for KingCanada and others. Conversely some people have purchased expensive lathes from other sellers and waited weeks and months to get authorization to have someone to do the repairs or get parts. These low end imports from China and Taiwan are mass produced with low cost in mind. They are not fine turned, the casting are not stress relieved and they are not machined to high precision tolerances. They are not meant for high speed precision mass production. Although some people have used them for mass production, their are better suited for entry level and hobbyists.

Denis, Many thanks for your good response to Will's query. You post offers some helpful ways of considering low end machines, I, for one, hadn't thought about seasoning the iron.

Turn to Safety, Arch Fortiter

I was kind of hoping to find someone who had actually used the lathe and could comment on specifics - but you raise some interesting issues. Couldn't resist commenting on them and giving you the benefit of my experience - since you raised them. Feel free to reply -- and don't take offense at anything I have said please.

There was no > As far as quality is concern King Canada sells the same products as > BusyBees.

They may be the same manufacturer. But they aren't the same tools. In most cases now there are strong physical differences.

Noe if you had said General - I might be more in agreement. IMHO their finish is not always as good as King. But I have a few of their items that King did not offer - or that were better - because they chose a better offshore manufacturer and specced it for our market better than King in this particular case... However, some very good local dealers sell General and service the heck out of their clients - so I can't even suggest they might be bad.

indeed does list a lathe for $125 (normally $175). It sure doesn't look the same to me -- and I did not like the finish. We have several nearby King dealers that have good service reputations - particularly the Cookstown Home Hardware -- and a few others nearby. (Since Avril Lavigne wore one of their T-Shirts I think the price has gone up locally - so they are not perfect!)Some of the local builders swear by Busy Bee though -- usually because the equipment is a little coarse -- and can take the pounding of being hauled to work sites on a regular basis -- and they do very well in that market -- and their clients are quite happy. I have bought quite a few small tools at Busy Bee - know exactly what I am buying (so far) and have been quite happy with the company. I set my expectations quite low and they and their tools exceeded them significantly -- good enough for me. :-)

At woodshows, some of the dealers and even the reps have quietly suggested their competition of particular items. They just ask that you give them some business on other items that they believe they have a better product. That's fair.

True. King Canada does seem to do a good job of writing the specs then.

Some of the King, General and Busy Bee tools I have bought would have cost me a lot more elsewhere under other brand names and I could not have done the work I do.

Interesting. That seems to be true for my lawn mower, camera, TV and other things too. Had not really thought about it since it seems so prevalent these days.

Good idea. It would be many days if I checked on all our equipment though. :-)

Many are. That's true.

That is why I have been buying more King Canada / King Industrial - since they seem to take a lot more care in writing specs that include a better finishing job and readable manuals.

I guess that's me -- although the last lathe my dad had was an industrial production lathe designed for heavy duty work. Made a few bowls on it. :-)

I think you are posting from NB. Now Ontario has a larger population and maybe some of the companies can afford to run more service centres and service their clients better - which often overcomes deficiencies in the tools... Not fair - but that's often how it is.

Sorry Will, I have never seen (in person) nor touched this machine. But it looks like a solid little machine. Perhaps a little light on HP, but reasonable for the money. I like the opportunity to add an extension bed. I like doind spindles and I consider 30" B/C a must. YMMV.

To those who point out that chaiwanise tools may be of lesser quality and not be up to production work.... What what do you expect for $300 CAD?

This appears to be a solid little hobbiest machne at a reasonable price point. Whether that meets your needs depends on what you want to do with it. Obviously the 10" swing is going to limit what you can do, but bigger turnings ar probably more than you should be doing on this class of machine anyway.

-Steve

Hi Will, Sorry, I haven't any experience with the KWL-1016C, but I'm going to comment anyway. It certainly looks to be similar to the other midi's/mini's out there, but it does claim 2" more between centers than the Jet mini, and I think it comes in about 30 pounds heavier than the Jet. One concern I have is with the spindle speeds, they jump from 480 to 1270 and top out at

4023 rpm, the Jet has a setting at about 800 and tops out at about 3000 rpm. I don't have the exact numbers right now. I don't think I've ever used the top speed on my Jet mini, just the 4 lower ones, so I think the missing 800 rpm setting could be an inconvenience/nuisance. Is there a big price difference between the Jet mini and the KWL-1016C in Canada?

Martin Long Island NY

Martin:

Hadn't noticed the speed jump. Thanks for pointing that out.

The weight difference probably contributes to stability -- assuming equally good balancing.

Did my best to check out run-out on the lathe at one wood show. Could not detect any wobble and did not have a dial gauge. The King rep just smirked -- and wished me luck. He owns one himself and said the run out was "negligible" on his own lathe.

The Jet mini lathe was about $400 - $450 CDN - plus extension cost. The Jet dealer had a $60 set of tools - he was trying to clear a big buy.

The mini lathe dealer I have dealt with before as well - decent people. See lathes on LH menu.

King is about $300 - with a so-so set of tools. The last lathe I used was an antique. My dad had put a motor on it, but I'll bet it had a treadle on it originally or was used with a big wide belt from a donkey steam engine. It did have multiple diameter pulley on the motor (the "pulley" on the lathe was a huge round block of wood) -- but since the stuff I did was all so similar I just realized that I never changed the speed once we had it set up. Ooops.

Time to buy a book and learn the general rules for setting speeds before I get something inappropriate for intended use.

Small -- Bowls, chair spindles, leg spindles, small turned jewel boxes is the intended use.

I will get a book asap - but a comment on the missing speed would be appreciated -- based on the intended use stated. Or even just tell me why you use 800rpm -- you might suggest something I would like to try -- or should know.

Normally would use cherry, maple, walnut, oak the "standard" easily available Ontario hardwoods. Many woods we have similar to those available to you. You get the Carolinian species cheaply as well -- we pay a bit extra for those -- but maybe some of them as well if I can get them.

We are in Newmarket Ontario area - a days drive north of you. (Unless the border guards are grumpy.)

Mart>>I was kind of hoping to find someone who had actually used the lathe and

The King Canada lathe KWL-1016 named the Mega-Lathe by them is at $175.00 CAD a good buy. Other sellers are referring to this type of lathe as a Midi Lathe. Also check with General International they recently added a new lathe to their catalogue that appears to come from the same mould. Canadian Tire has one that, at time, comes on sales for about $99.00 CAD their regular price is $149.00 CAD. The Mega - Lathe has a MT # 2 and 1"X 8 TPI , a swing over bed of 10 inches,

16 inches between center with a minimum speed of 480 rpm with an 1/2 HP 110v motor. You will have to make a stand for this lathe. I prefer hardwood. Depending on your skill or your friends you may be able to make a welded construction. Correct me if I am wrong is Bradford the High tech suburb of Toronto?

Denis:

Thanks.

Denis Marier wrote:

This is the KWL-1016C - Selling at about $300 --- If I could buy the one I saw at $175 I would not have posted - just snapped it up.

Other sellers are referring to this type of lathe as a

Will do. Their stuff is good and well represented here.

Not the same quality. My own observations tell me that that the King

1016C is likely comparable to the Jet mini-lathe. But I can walk to a Canuck Tire from here -- so I will go look. If it is the same lathe I will carry it home on my back for a $99 price tag.

BTW - I just double checked a Desk chair leg. 15 1/2 " - that's why I often buy the King products - they pay attention to those details. When I looked at the Jet I was sure I would have to buy the extension - but didn't have my facts together - so I did not buy on the spot - even though I had cash in my pocket that day.

Just ran upstairs and checked my Vilas (remember them?) chair -- 16

1/2" @#!#@! And of course the crappy table my wife bought one day has 18" legs. %$@!@#@ Blowing that theory out of the water somewhat.

Guess I need the extension anyway - unless I stick to desk chairs. :-(

Yeah - I can get a decent chuck that fits that thread at

goes for under a hundred if I remember correctly. They had them there unadvertised. > You will have to make a stand for this lathe. I prefer hardwood. > Depending on your skill or your friends you may be able to make a welded > construction. Correct me if I am wrong is Bradford the High tech suburb of > Toronto?

Only in someones' dreams -- but not mine. ROTFLMAO. I no longer have nightmares of this nature. About living in a high tech burb that is...:-)

Between Newmarket and Barrie is The Holland Marsh Farming district and Bradford. It features lots of carrots and potatoes and the odd clump of celery and tons of garlic. In summer there are more Mexican Farm workers than local inhabitants. Get to practice my Spanish with them - nice people. It is a cheap bedroom community for Newmarket and Barrie -- probably get flamed now. :-)

Maybe Markham could be c>>

{SNIP}

Will, There are no hard and fast rules on spindle speed, but guidelines. Larger diameter piece, lower spindle speed and smaller diameter then higher spindle speeds. For out of balanced pieces, again you want a low spindle speed. As you realized with the old lathe that you used, you don't have to change speeds, some people do all their turning at one speed. You don't need to have 800 rpm on a lathe, I just didn't like the big jump. You might find that 400 rpm feels too slow for a certain part and 1200 seems too fast, if that is the case, keep it at 400. Hope this helps some. Martin Long Island NY

Big difference between the way they used to let iron season and the quick oven annealing process they use now. I have to believe that it's a big factor in a lot of the alignment problems folks report.

That's what seemed obvious - but it's better to ask a question and be thought a fool than to suggest something silly and remove all doubt. :-)

For out of balanced pieces, again you want a low spindle speed. As

For obvious reasons now... Sounds like it may be a design flaw to me. There are different pulleys though :-) A little bit of arithmetic and maybe another pulley cam be found if all else is OK

You might find

It does - thank you kindly.

Ah - so that's the issue... Internal stresses - causing a twisting of the base I gather.

Would it be an issue >

{SNIP}

{SNIP} Will, Take a look at the pulleys on the King Canada unit, it might not be convenient to change a single pulley (sheave). The Jet mini uses a flat belt and the six step pulley is machined as one piece as far as I recall. That it uses a flat belt isn't really relevant. Everything is do-able, it is just how much effort is it worth. I'm not trying to dissuade from buying the King Canada lathe, it looks like a good lathe at a good price. Good luck.

Martin Long Island, New York

No, it's just that the crystallization process proceeds slowly. The iron actually warps while relieving internal stresses. Residual internal augmented by external stress placed on the piece by the clumsy can cause problems too.

Some of the Grizzly tools we picked up on a grant up at school (more beans better than better beans to bean counters) cracked with use, and the crystalline structure was very coarse.

OK I understand. Will consider that. As I said - may not be an issue on such a small lathe intended for light use. May have to go back to my materials engineering texts for a quick review. Knew I would find a use for that course one day...

No question that lathes generate forces that can harm the unwary.

This issue will probably be the biggest factor in the decision. But, it is light duty usage and a small lathe. Just do not believe that this could be an issue -- but I will do my research -- I promise!!! On a large casting - I can see the issue clearly.

Wonder if the Jet mini lathe is made in far off places? Anyone know? It might have the same issue.

See below. :-)

George wrote:

And hence you ended up with no beans. Right?

Bean counters - love em eh? Took a contract a while back. When they told me what a great advantage it was that a bean counter ran the company... well there were problems of the type you alluded to... I'm not there now. Can't stomach that c..p My accountant used to tell me to run -- not walk -- from a contract whenever I saw a bean counter as CEO. Said that _normally_ they just did not have the mentality to grow a company. (Now I will get flamed eh?)

Many thanks for your time and patience.

Many times I have _not_ bought after becoming educated - because I know I cannot afford the right item.

I will look carefully. I was aware of this isse at least.

Thanks for your time and patience as well.

Will to state the obvious, Far Eastern imports like those from less far away or made in N.A. vary widely in quality and its control. I suspect that if we were willing to pay for it, their quality could equal ours. I remember when "made in Japan" meant junk, not today and not domestically then. I think the Jet is made in a faraway place with a strange sounding name, but it has stood the test of time and misuse. I have an old King-Seeley lathe which passed the same tests. The little King-Canada should too. Have fun, whatever your decision.

Turn to Safety, Arch Fortiter

Answer appears to be - depends. The JET mini was Taiwan, seems to have gone mainland recently, following the price. As to it being an issue, probably not. The little fella seems, or at least seemed, overbuilt. Note that you can help your cause by mounting on a firm substrate, shimming rather than trying to draw any mis-machining out of it.

BTW, no lathe is going to be light duty only. You'll push the equipment as the hobby takes hold until you just have to have something else. Wager tendered, if you say it won't be the case. I'm not well-off, but I'm picking up my third lathe next month. First was a "just spindles" lathe until I turned my second bowl. Got Blue in '83 when I converted a long tea-totaling TDY into a new toy. He's turned through three sets of tuitions, and will not be leaving when the NOVA arrives, because he is built like the proverbial privy, while the new is built to "good enough" standard.

I have visited your site and saw what your are doing. Toronto is well known for custom designed jewelry. Many buyers like to have their jewelry delivered in custom made boxes. If your rate of return from your business warrants it, a better quality lathe could become your best investment. At this time, Canadian Tires are selling this lathe for $149.99. Before christmas they had it on sales for $99.99. The lathe is not exactly the same as King Canada but may come from the same foundry?

Canadian Tire Mastercraft Specs:

120V, 2.3A variable-speed motor (750-3,200 rpm) 12" (30.5cm) length capacity 8" (20cm) swing over bed capacity Adjustable tailstock holds workpieces up to 12" long 6" faceplate on the 3/4-16" thread drive spindle for inboard turning Cast-iron headstock and tailstock #1 Morse taper spur center #1 Morse taper ball-bearing cup center Includes adjustable 4½ & 7" tool rests, 2 & 6" inboard faceplates, push-out rod & wrench Weight: 43 lbs. (19.5kg)

What I do not like about the above specs is that it uses a #1 Morse taper,

3/4" 16 TPI and the swing over bed is only 8". However if it comes on sales at $99.99 it may be OK to learn and hone your skills until you choose to get better. Let us know what you think of it.